I been dey wonder. My frend went home last week to marry a girl he has never met. They have been speaking on the phone, but the parents arranged the marriage. I thot this sort of thing isn't happening anymore.

Even if they go home to marry, what is wrong with Naija women here in Yankee? Or they just use dem and dump them? Kraze dey yanfu yanfu.

Why Nigerians go home to marry? I am starting to understand why the MEN go home to marry; I am going to do so myself.
I am a reasonably good looking 28yr old Nigerian male. I am a health professional with an over $80k income. I own 4 condos. My entire family lives in the Baltimore. I am not what you would call a womanizer; in fact, I am one of those goal oriented, studious guys most mothers want their daughters to marry......but the truth is that our Nigerian single females here in the USA don't admire such traits anymore, and on some level I don't blame them. If I was young and pretty with men courting my attention all the time I would probably tend to hang with the flashy Romeos. The problem is that flashy Romeo is too busy fucking the many women he seduces and LIKELY has a disorganized, low achieving life, spending his money to impress women instead of laying the educational and financial foundations for a married life. Take this from me: I have a lot of male friends, and it is the ones who have achieved nothing who have the most girlfriends. The girls don't marry them because they are unstable and cheat a lot, but they love the excitement.

When these girls hit 28-30, they realize they want to get married, and now its time to look for the stable guy like me. I am amazed at the number of single Nigerian females in Baltimore and New Jersey who didn't get married when they were opportuned to do so. I know 2 women in particular who were seriously courted by 2 older friends of mine 6-7 yrs ago. The ladies kept doing shakara till these same guys had to go to Nigeria to get married. Guess who is still single and now DESPERATELY asking our friends to set them up on dates?

Now to me. I am right now desperately seeking a Nigerian girl in the USA to marry, and so are 2 other male friends of mine (one is 30, the other 34, one is a pharmacist, the other a doctor). We all get the same runaround from young Nigerian females. What I went through last month on being introduced to a marriageable 24yr old nurse is TYPICAL of the stories the 3 of us share among ourselves. What follows is a literal true story.

We went on the date. I liked her.....appearance, the way she talked, (except that she only gave me one or two world answers as we conversed, but I ascribed that to shyness that would ease with time) et c. I was the quintissential gentleman, never making any remark that could be called offensive or sexually harassing. We had drinks at a fancy bar in DC. Everything is great.
I call her a few days later. We talk. She is still with the short answer thing. I call her a few more times without getting her. She doesn't EVEN CALL BACK, so I leave a message asking if we could go out again; THEN SHE CALLS BACK.

We go out again. Nice $200 dinner, go to the movies with her friends to see "Tears in the Sun" (OK MOVIE, BUT NOT A MUST SEE)..... I guess she wanted to get their opinion. Same cold manner. After the date I call her a few times, without getting her, leave a message, no reply. So I think, maybe she doesn't like me. No problem with that. I'll move on.

A week later of no calls from me, and she calls me, asking why I hadn't called her. You can imagine what I'm thinking at this point.

Ask most Nigerian guys who are SERIOUSLY looking for wives, and they will tell you the above story. It has happened to me on 3 occassions now. It seems our ladies, once they realize a man is intent on settling down, decide to play games with our emotions or take us for ego trips. The one thing the "young and pretty" ajebos forget is that time is not on their side.

THAT IS WHY I WILL MOST PROBABLY GO HOME AND MARRY. THE GIRLS THERE VALUE US MORE (YES, THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH MONETARY CONSIDERATIONS IN MARRIAGE.)

To our single ladies here......See you at 30! We'll see who'll want to marry your used up booty. The time to be humble and serious is when you are at your best and most attractive, and like it or not, that time is not 30 or close to it. Good luck to y'all.

Fishy,

Just to reinforce what I wrote yesterday and because I like to deal with reality, not theory, since I decided I wanted to marry a Nigerian woman in the USA, THE ONLY ONES EAGER TO EXPLORE A RELATIONSHIP HAVE BEEN THOSE FEMALES OVER 30YRS AND ONE 23YR OLD WITH A KID.

The 23yr old from Michagan was so nice. I met her at the Nigerian Reunion in Miami. To tell you the truth, I wondered why she was being so civil and nice........returning my phone calls, not playing games, et c. When I started getting serious like wanting to meet her parents and so on, she then told me she had a 2 yr old daughter. What does that tell you?

What self respecting man will want to marry a used up Tokunbo or someone elses baby-mother when you can go to Nigeria and pick a beautiful bride of your choice?

Your question no get head lai lai. Abi you no dey the same America wey I dey?

Bachelor.

So, you think the ladies are the ones playing hard to get and so are at fault in this case? Fascinating perspective. I have always been of the impression our men have all the fun with these ladies and then run home to marry some fresh meat. Hey, what do I know? I'm sure the ladies will tell a different story!

Dear Sola,

No one is at fault. I'm just describing the reasons why many Nigerian men end up going to Nigeria to pick brides. I'm being realistic here, I'm not one to engage in polite whitewashing.

Those Nigerian ladies who claim they are used and dumped didn't have much prospects of getting married in the first place. It is usually the ugly or ineligible (as in over 30 or single mothers) ones who have to use sex to get romantic attention; I have had my share of their attention. Those ones are not going to get married easily NO MATTER WHAT.

I am talking of the MARRIAGIABLE Nigerian females. They are the ones who do shakara till their expiration date.

To each his own sha. I will tell you this though: any single female who is not haughty, refrains from playing head games and realizes that Nigerian men have romantic feelings too and are not just after sex will find a good man. Our women should also learn to consider Black American men; in conversations with some of our females I find they actually rate Akata guys higher than us but succumb to family pressure and forgo them as marriage mates.

Bachelor.

"What self respecting man will want to marry a used up Tokunbo or someone elses baby-mother when you can go to Nigeria and pick a beautiful bride of your choice? "

Hi Bachelor, couldn't help reacting to those words.
Old folktale about the woman who was too beautiful for the locals and ended up marrying a spirit on market day is true after all. But it apparently applies to men as well.
I read your two posts. I was sympathetic in the main. (The truth is true) However, in this last post you seem to have stumbled into the same error of superficialness that you accused our sisters of.
Rather like the teenager whose only abuse is 'you old man', forgetting that if he's lucky, 'old' is exactly what he should pray to become. 'Used up Tokunbo' seems to me to be 'yabis' of the same ilk.
Prescribing marriage partners to people is an act of futility. Go ahead and marry whoever you want. However, I have only pity for a man - or woman - who finds a perfect mate, and walks away because that mate already has a 2 year old child.
As your letter shows, all of us can do with a dose of humility. Many won't find humilty even after the sixth child out of wedlock. If your Michigan friend learnt it from being a single parent, good for her. - And for the man courageous enough to walk with her and a child young enough to call him 'Dad'.
Concerning the greener pastures in my wonderful country, yes, Nigeria is a very deep well - and most of our 120 million folk are still there. At the risk of mixing metaphors, I daresay you have just as much a chance of netting poisonous starfish as delicious tilapia in that ocean.
So what could you get in exchange for your Michigan 'Baby-Mother'? Perhaps a beautiful young lady who has had a botched abortion too many, or another one whose 2-year-old pops up six months into an expresslane marriage when she's safely ensconced in your Baltimore condo.
But then again, you could be lucky, and end up like many other handsome, prosperous Nigerian males, with a beautiful 'marriageable' wife.
Speaking for myself, I won't prescribe a woman to my friends for marriage simply because she has a 2-year-old out of wedlock. (Although you will find a heartless, serial abortionist a less endearing lifelong roommate than a girl unable to take the life of her unborn child).
However, if you have found a woman ideal in every sense, but for that 'blight' on her life, advancing age will only underline your error of judgement, and chances are, one more middle-aged man will spend rueful nights on his bed regretting the 'the one he drove away'.
Happy hunting.

Keziamo,

What you write is well taken. I strongly encourage everyone to marry who they want.....(AS IF THEY WOULD DO OTHERWISE).

My point is that the marketplace of marriage is more weighted in favor of the male Nigerian in the USA than for the females. That is why I find it stupid on the part of our Nigerian females to do shakara till it is too late. Myself, I will get married when I want. It is our young ladies here who have more limited options, especially the ones who grew up in Nigeria.

1. Nigerian men are more likely to feel comfortable marrying a foreigner. On this point I really have a problem with our girls. From what I have been told by many of them, American Blacks are more handsome, polished and mannered than African men, et c. Yet how many raised in Nigeria ladies marry Black Americans? I have only met one. And the story of how it happened is an affirmation of my views on the subject, but best not told here lest I make enemies out of friends.

2. Nigerian men are more comfortable with going home to pick a bride who may accept the man for the chance to go abroad; it happens all the time, and for those Nigerian men who don't lie about their station in life here, (cab drivers claiming to be engineeers......I've seen it all) it works out pretty well.
It is women who are more sceptical of men in Nigeria who might use the women as a ticket to the USA AND JUSTIFIABLY SO.

3. Beauty and good looks, like it or not, are a big part of attraction for men and women. Money is a big part too, BUT MORE FOR WOMEN. (Correct me if I'm wrong). So, if you are not a Halle Berry or Agbeni Darego, you are better off getting it done while you still have the looks. An ugly man at 40 with a good livelihood still has a better chance than his female contemporaries at the same income level.

My lament here is more a wake up call to our sisters here especially the ones who grew up in Nigeria.......as for me, I have given up on them jare, but there are much better men than me who are still looking. Humility is for those who need it. I have looked the thing up, down, sideways and these Naija babes need it more than I do. I mean, if a man asks your name, or your phone number, or (Sango & Amadioha help the man) he asks for a date, please smile! Don't act like he just pulled down his pants or put his hand up your skirt (YES, THAT IS HOW A LOT OF THE NAIJA BRED LADIES REACT). Smile..........yes, show those teeth, there you go!!!! I can't lie; one of the things I love most about African girls is their teeth. Pity they don't smile enough.



Bachelor.

Why exactly do Nigerian men feel more comfortable marrying foreigners?

You also made the comment that Nigerian females feel that American black men are more handsome, etc...

I think everyone has a right to their opinion.

I am African-American and I have a couple of opinions about Nigerian men.

I think American (black) men, are much, much more better in bed than Nigerian men. ( I know I will get a response on that one).

I use to date a Nigerian. We are still friends. I love him to death.
He just was not "banging" in the bedroom. ( If you know what I mean).

They just seem to be really "selfish" in bed. I think that is the way they treat Nigerian women. No trying to satisfy the woman, only themselves.

I still love him though. I still love him.

Bachelor,

I must first say, I never said "Sex" would be my primary reason for choosing a mate. I simply stated my opinion. Sex is not great with African men. As far as character, I have to say my Nigerian friend had more "character" than most of the American black men I have dated.

Now I have to clarify some things. I don't think "we" ( neither you nor I) should put all "people" in one category. I think it is not fair for you to say that all American black women mothers had men coming in and out of their homes. Nor is it fair to say that all American black women have been involved in sex since the age of thirteen. I have to also say it is not fair for "me" to say that all American black men are "great" in bed either. Or that none of them have "character". Or that all "african" men have character.

I know some ass-holes in both cultures.

I think "we" American black women have been brought up in society which stresses "sex" as a part of "everything".

Commericals adverstising cars, you have a half naked woman, well if you live in America you know the story. You should also know that from the begining of time life for the "american black" has much different than for anyone else in this country.

As slaves, the men were taken from the women, etc....
I am sure you know the story. The white man made sure that blacks didn't have a "family" setting. Family members were sold off to other slave owners never to see them again... etc....
Or maybe you don't know American black history..

Well, I could go on... the bottom line is we never knew what it was to be a family in this country from the begining, we had that "stripped" from us... So now, we try to build solid families and we really dont' know how..... do you understand?????

I think it is time for us American blacks to break the cycle. Yes, the white man created this monster, but it is time for us to break the cycle.

Yet, we still are mistreated in this country. Of course now it not the so obvious ways of the past, but racial tensions are still here.

If you are not an black american in this country you will never trully understand how deep our pain is. You are only on the outside looking in. Just as I don't know the pain of anyone else from another country.

Maybe we need to get to know others before we cast judgement. Maybe we need to "walk a mile" in someone else's shoes first.

Maybe we need to sit down with other people from different places and talk about issues that so many of us seem to want to cover up with " I'ts over now, move on shit.... Nothing is ever over. We still wear the scars long after the wounds have healed.

And as far as my Nigerian friend is concerned, sex was never a big deal.

I do believe American women are more intuned with "our sexuality" than other women. Most women in other countries are taught to only "please the man", not worry about their pleasure.

Well, I don't buy that crap. It is far more than just about "you getting your dick sucked". :rolleyes:

Bachelor,

I just read your post on how you can't seem to find a wife.

First of all try selling your "personality" not your "material stuff" and all of the "earthly accomplishments" you think woman are "only" looking for in a mate.

Most women today are financially able to take care of themselves, not that we would not want a man who is also financially "stable". My point is this, I think the problem with alot of men is that they think women are only looking for a "professional man", you know the ones who have made a mark on the world ( at least they think so), master degrees, etc......

The truth of the matter is yes, having an well educated man is great, yes he has plenty of "book" sense but does he have any "common sense". Will he treat me like a "lady", with dignity and respect. Will he adore me? Will I be the apple of his eye, or will his "job" be his "first love".

Personally, I am not trying to compete with my husbands "job" or college degrees for "attention". Alot of times women end up "left out" because the hubby works so much that he has forgotten to be her "lover". By all means, please go to work. Just don't pay more attention to your money, than your "wife and family".

My point is, Women are looking for "character", not just how much money you make. Women want to be treated like queens.
We are making our own damn money.
So Bachelor, Do you have a personality? Do you have a sense of humor?

You men are wondering why noone wants to marry you? Maybe you need to take a inventory of "yourself".
Believe me "we all need to". We like to play the blame game?
If noone is interested in you, 9 times out of 10 it is you not them!!!

I just realized something else you said Bachelor!!

What is this expiration date crap you are talking about?

From what I read of you, You don't seem to have much respect for "women". That could be one of your major problems.

To say that a woman expires at the age of 30 or over is bullshit, buddy!!

First off, I see why she was not interested in you. You have alot of growing up to do. Keep living, and you will.

I am sure you have a mother, right? OH Yeah, only women can push those out of them. Do you feel the same way about your mother, do you see her as a piece of meat that expires after a certain amount of years???

Maybe you did not have a healthy relationship with your mother.

If you didn't, you are most likely to look at women as some type of prey to be caught before it gets to "old".

Grow up Bachelor!!!! You have some unresolved issues that you have not dealt with. Oh, yeah you do......

We all have something in our life that needs work, and you my dear, have just exposed yours............

I await your reply.

I read ur piece Blackqueen28 n I must confess I feel u wrote it in anger and spite.Working out a marriage largely depends on the two people going into the union and whatever character they have will go a long way into determining if a marriage will work.That most Naija guys are going home to get married is no news but we shd ask WHY?


Why are they doing that?My cousin just recently got married n he brought his bride from home to the states,another one is about to do same,so the question is still WHY?
The fact is that with the way we Naija men were brought up, especially those who grew up at home,there is this mentality that a woman must be submissive in line with some other things but with the culture here which rubs off on people,men see its rather wholesome to go back home to bring their brides.

All in all though,it depends on the people going into a relationship for them to know what they want.Relationships are all about compromises.You cant have a perfect person when even u are not perfect.



C'est simplement moi,
Kingpin.

You just hit the nail on the head!!!!!!!!!!!!

You guys want a "SUBMISSIVE" woman, yeah, I think you are better off marrying Nigerian women if thats what your looking for.
You are absolutely right!!! Because American women are not raised to only please the man.

It is very funny. I just got back from lunch with 2 guys friends and another female and we talking about that same issue.
American men like women who have their own minds, who can stand up for themselves. I guess Nigerian men want the opposite.

Well that goes to show when you are raised in different cultures, you have different point of views.

American women (black and white) are raised to be independant.
We are raised to "carry our own", with or without a man.
Men don't make or break us baby!!!

So I guess if you are looking for someone to run to your every becking call, and literally kiss the ground you walk on, yeah, you better marry Nigerian women baby!!!!!!!!!

Oh, by the way, I was not upset when I wrote that, I am "passionate" about issues concerning women.

I am sick of women being treated as pieces of meat, and slaves, mostly in foreign countries. Women are not property buddy....

I guess I now know the truth of why my Nigerian friend and I could never get any further. He wanted me to bow down to him.

It just was not going to happen. Not now, not ever!!!

You treat me the same way you want to be treated. If you want me to bow down to you, you better damn well believe you are going to have to bow down to me Nigga!!! Believe dat!!!!

Good Luck for your search of an Nigerian bride, because you definetly aint' "STRONG' and "SECURE" enough in you supposedly "MANHOOD" to handle an black American woman, maybe a black american girl, but not a "WOMAN" baby.........

Hello Blackqueen28 thanks for letting these Nigerian men know what it's all about.
Now Bachelor I have to let you know that you REALLY do have issues to deal with, do we sound a tad bit insecure with ourselves? Which is why we are shouting off rooftops how much we make. Haven't you heard it's not about how much you make it's about the savoir faire. And what's that remark about single mums and women over 30? I feel SO SORRY for you. I'm a single mum, it's people like you that make all those so called 'wives' of yours have 30 abortions before they get married, and when you marry them you wonder if you've got low sperm count or she's the one with the problem, maybe it's a little of both!!!
But Bachelor, get a life, go home find a wife, she'll leave you anyway when she gets there, or haven't you heard stories like that yet? HOw our chicks are using you DUMB guys to get papers and then after that its hastalavista baby!!!
Really bachelor you need to sort out your issues and then GET a life!!
Mr Kingpin, c'est vraiment simplement vous, dit moi what do you understand about women? Go home it's NO LONGER all about being submissive, unless she's over 10 years your junior, which means she'll leave you when you are old,bald and grey. It's all about UNDERSTANDING and RESPECT. Two key values that are very important in a marriage, SUBMISSIVE? NO!!! I have friends who can't say jack while infront of them their husbands wink at women, or call their girlfriends, and it's all about being submissive. THAT is not RESPECT, my friend or SUBMISSION, it's plain STUPIDITY, in my dictionary.
The problem with nigerian men, believe it or not is that they have egos bigger than their heads, it's amazing!!
PLEASE you all treat your woman with respect and you'll be surprised, what will happen.
Thank ya!!!!!

Yes, Girl, he is insecure!!!

Anytime a man or woman uses his "accomplishments" as the only way to make themselves feel "worthy" or "important" in this life, that says alot for their sense of self worth.

That is just like women whose only sense of "self worth" comes from the size of their waste-line or how pretty their face is, etc...

If you don't believe you have anything else "loving" about yourself except how much money you make or how "pretty" you are , you are suffering from "low self-esteem". Having money, degrees, material stuff, does not equal out to one feeling good about themselves.

Take it from a sister who knows first hand. I am what you call a "beautiful lady". Not trying to brag, but I got it going on as far as my looks. I have men all over me no matter where I am or where I go. I realized one day that I was starting to feel like a piece of meat. You know, it seemed men only approached me because of my looks... Now I know some people say what is wrong with that? I will tell you . After a while I realized men just wanted to use me as some type of "trophy". You know, I look good and that makes them "look good".

My point is this. Why would men only want a woman to like them for "the outside appearance"? Money, cars, degrees... all of that stuff that looks good.

Don't you want a lady to love you for who "you really are"? Your good character, morals, your spirit.

I end up just being friends with these men, after they realize I am more than just a pretty face and they usually don't have what it takes to "pay the bill".

So men, do your homework on yourselves. Grow up!! At least admit you can start to make some changes.

What more can I say.
Talking about the mentality of the American woman who has been liberated from "male slavery" I think is an easy way of explaining urselves.All I can tell u is that I have no problem with women lib but when it comes to marriage,one needs maturity to make it work coupled with an understanding partner.
You dont expect to sow cassava to reap maize.Its what u put in that u get out of it.Ladies, thre is nothing wrong with Nigerian men as soon as u start seeing more and understanding more.
La vie est belle,mes amis.



C'est simplement moi.

Sorry to say darling, The Lib movement had nothing to do with my mentality.
What I am saying is simply this: Treat me the way you want to be treated. That goes for anybody. Man, woman, boy or girl, black, white, red, american, non-american I don't care where you are from. It is a matter of "RESPECT" for our God given liberties.

Men have little respect for woman anymore. I remember a time in this country when men would worship the ground a woman walked on, because the respected her as a "WOMAN", they respected her as the mother or all "humanity". THey respected women because the person that birthed them in this world was a "woman".

I ask to be treated as such. No less than a human being first, then a "WOMAN". Not anybodys damn property or cattle.

I was taught that by my mother not the Libs movement.

I have to say as far as the treatment of women, America has many laws to protect us, I believe that is why God has so richly blessed this country. It is alot of things I don't like about my country, but I can say compared to other countries in this world
we have rights that other women only wished they had.

America does not look down on women in this country as "unworthy to hold political positions, etc....

Until some of these countries start treating Gods women with more respect, they will continue to suffer with all kinds of issues.

I believe one reason some of these countries are in the shape they are in is because of their disrespect for Gods girls.

God said, he will not answer the prayers of a man who mistreats his wife, what do you think about the prayers of a country who mistreats "all" the wives.

AND what do u think about a woman who is not submissive to her husband?

One needs maturity huh??

Maturity is a matter of actions, not just "talk".

I have nothing against Nigerian men. I do believe that Nigerian men are not "strong" enough to handle a woman who is "secure in her womanhood". Or a woman who has a mind, and who gives no apologies nor explanations on why she speaks her mind.

That is probaly why Nigerian men in America end up marrying Nigerian women or white women. Both are submissive.

If you want a marriage to work out, then you need to be able to "do unto others as you would have them do unto you "?
Thank You.

Tell me Bkackqueen28,have u forgotten where it was written in the holy book?

Now I'm beginning to see where y'all derailed.Take a little thts good for u n throw away the not so pleasing?

I'm all for respect and dignity,self-assertion and all thats good for the woman after all I've got my sweet mother,wonderful sisters,aunties and all,I love women cos woman's breast fed my infant mouth,woman shall bear me children and "woman's gaze shall watch me when I go to heaven",I got nothing against ur view point but u guys have derailed, n u're using ur yardstick to judge the whole world.

Its not right.

Thanks to Toni Braxton for making that phrase very popular.
You keep harping on Nigerian men as not being men enough for ur
African-American sisters,I think if Nigerian men are not man enough for ur folks,no other men on the planet will be able to do that.In ur previous write up,u said u guy was good n u still love him but that he is selfish in bed.
That is his Achilles' heel,that alone.
And u broke up with him cos of that?Damn.
I wonder if u, ur mortal highness are as perfect as u seem to be in ur speech.
Lady,try getting the iroko outta ur eyes b4 u try blowing the speck outta my eyes.

What exactly is not right? It seems to be right for some men to treat dogs better than they treat women.

Is that right? I don't think that is right?

Is it not right for a woman to be able to say whats on her mind, without getting slapped or punched because she " Got out of line"?

Please tell me what is right? Is this treatment right?
A mans wife is not his property, she is human being who deserves to be treated no less than.


Tell me what is right Kingpin!

You seem to be saying if I'm not wrong that only Nigerian men hit n slap their wives?


Dont ur black brothers not hit and slap their wives too?Dont white men hit their wives too?Men of all colour,race,class n upbringing are guilty of that,so stop making the Nigerian look too bad.

I'm not saying it is the right option for a man to hit his wife or any woman for that matter cos I feel it is cowardice.

Nigerian men do not run away from their families bcos they dont have enough money to take care of themIf there is anything that the Naija man is good at ,it is being optimistic about the future.You cant take that away from the Naija man.

If you remember reading correctly, Man, I never said I broke up with him because of his sexual performance. Read it again, Man.

Yes, I still love him as a human being and as a friend. My love for him has nothing to do with how he perfomed in bed.

We did not get along mainly because we clashed too much on many issues. I also was not willing to "submit" to him.

He would always say to me ", "Will you let me be the man"?
I just don't think he could handle my assertiveness.

That is fine. Like I said I am mature enough to still be friends with him not based on us not getting along as a couple, but simply because I love him as a human being first, then as a friend.

As a matter of fact I spoke to him last night. When we first talk, we always tell each other how much we love each other.

No, we didn't get along as lovers, but as friends we are great.

Like I said, his perfomance sexually has nothing to do with the way I feel about him. He is a great person otherwise.

I just typed a whole page, where did it go??

Oh well, let me just say this. I am talking about all men when I say Men.

Only when I am only referring to Nigerian men do I say "Nigerian Men".

I am talking about men in general. Men in general have little respect for women. Not just one group.

Re read the post, I never said that.

I appreciate ur frankness.That is what I like in women.

A woman who knows what she is after n not what she is goint to get out of a man.Like I was talking to a girl friend 2 days back about what she intended to achieve in life n she told me she hopes to go for her masters degree in Spain n if luck smiles on her she intends to marry a spanish prince.Things like that put me off in a woman.
I like women who like to assert themselves and I must confess that while growing up I used to envy women ministers n commissioners while watching them on tv cos my own dear mother was a teacher cum housewife.

Since then I've made up my mind not to marry a wife who's sole ambition is to get married n stop living.Women intop positions turn me on.

I love women.


C'est simplement moi.

Wow! Thats interesting!!

A woman in power!! I also have to admit, Men in power turn me on, just not when they take their authority too far.

Some men feel, just because they are "MEN", they can take advantage of women because we are WOMEN.

Well, I never meant to seem like a "raving bitch". I am just overally passionate about issues concerning women. All women.

I have seen my share of mistreatment and it really causes me to "rebel" against society in general.

With the help of my God and patience on my part, I am sure to one day let some of this rage go. I do know that somethings will never change.

I have to tell you something else I was thinking about concerning my nigerian friend. I remember when we first met he said something to me that I still think about from time to time.

These were his exact words: " I come from an uncivilized society, and you are from a civilized one, Do you think you can handle that? He was asking me that in terms of the major differences he knew we had as far as how we were raised, mentality, etc...

Well, I responded quickly, "Yeah, why wouldn't I be able to handle that"?

The more I think about how we failed as a couple, I realized that we allowed our differences to drive us apart instead of bring us together to grow. We were almost married.

As we talked last night all I could think about was how he would make someone a good husband one day. I think I was to stubborn to let somethings go. He was also. But, time will tell.

He could never really open up to me about his deep feelings. Yeah, he still tells me he loves me all the time and I love him, I think I was looking for more or something. To be honest, I still to this day don't know what that "more of" is.

Well, I will get it together one day by Gods grace.

Our people will say,"It is well".

Everyone who hopes on God will surely get something good in return.
Like is all about challenges and we may never know what we want until we let go of it.Thats when we realise we had the best.Its happened to me before n from time to time I still gnash my teeth as I reminisce.But one day I know God'll take care of it.

Time will tell the end of every story.Keep ur fingers crossed n have an open mind.No one is perfect n if u re looking for Mr Right,he would be an angel,even angels have faults.

Love you.

C'est simplent moi.
Kingpin.

Your so right!!!!
You never what you have until it is gone.

I know I had a great guy. I am glad we are still friends. I still wonder after all we went through, the arguments ( lots of those) most disagreements, how we still can be friends today.
To be honest I am so scared of him finding someone else.

I will be devastated if he found another woman and got close to her, the way we were. I realized that in the end those liitle things really just don't matter when you really think about it.

OH MY GOD!!! I am scared of someone else taking my place!!!

I just realized that as I am typing, Wow. I am so glad I can be honest with myself. I am a little jealous.

What do you think?

Black Queen and Co,

I must have touched a raw nerve. No apologies from me though. I stand by what I wrote.

1. On "expiration" I maintain that it is harder for a woman, especially a Nigerian, to get married when she is near or older than 30 or when she is a single mother, except she is exceptionally beautiful. Which is why I recommend that my Nigerian sisters resident in the USA learn a little humility when it comes to us, the Nigerian men, especially if they don't want to marry from other cultures. Try your best to hook a man while young. This is not a matter of right or wrong, I am just stating fact. I am concerned about this, it doesn't make me happy to see so many of my Naija sisters unhappily single.

2. I am very materialistic. Yes. I learned the hard way that it is better to be rich than poor. Enough said.

3. Haba, I love my mother. Shikena!!!!! That doesn't mean she has a lot of men lusting after her. (Except my father, I assume). I assume that is because she is over 30 and she isn't as sexually attractive as she used to be.

4. No one can force anything on anyone else, especially in the USA. We must not mistake this freedom as a limitless resource, because we ALL have certain limitations. We all use what we have to get what we want. I intend to use whatever I have to get a wife, more money, et c, and I intend to compromise when compromise will get me some semblance of what I long for. There is no perfection anywhere. For instance, if I meet an ugly 40 year old millionairess who want to marry me on the condition I bow down and kiss her toes each morning and stay home with the kids for the rest of my life and make love to her every night, I will give the offer serious consideration. On the other hand, if I meet a nubile, voluptous village beauty in Nigeria who loves me for my US passport and $$$$, I intend to give her serious consideration too.

I might even marry them both; I'm African, dammit!!!!

5. There is a reason in nature why men are domineering. Anything that kills a man's pride is not good. No matter how nice it sounds, there is no such thing as an equal relationship. All of us, men and women, must realistically assess our ability to be the dominant partner in any relationship. As my Naija folks might have heard, all fingers are not equal.

6. The truth hurts, but anyone who tries can get used to the pain.

Bachelor.

Yeah, you sort of touched a nerve.

I guess I now see the differences in Nigerian mentality and American mentality.

Americans don't have a specific age that consders someone "expired" for marriage. People can get married whenever they feel like it.

Anyway, Thanks for the reply. God Bless.

Good Luck with your search for a bride.

So you this bachelor you are still alive, and wagging your busta rhymes mouth on chicks who are single mums, thank you keziamo? For explaining one or two things to him
And by the way bachelor, maybe us nija chicks aren't interested in you, you sound like the typical lagosian who lives in the heart of isale eko but claims to be a bred ikoyi kid.
Please do the world a favor and deal with your insecurities.
What is the big deal about this anyway?
WHy won't you pick chicks back home, den get choice??
When their parents have already told them of dreams of getting dollars every month, ofcourse they will want to grab any old, half man who comes from yankee. ANd you yankee guys are SO FULL of yourself, like you are God's gift to us. Well someof us can see through you, and incase youdidn't notice these days you guys ain't worth jack. We make more money, we've got better positions, etc, in nija oh, or outside nija, na youknow.
Omo abeg carry go.
I said a while back the nija man's ego is his brain, he thinks with it.
Abeg make una settle una selves, find a good woman, like i said RESPECT is the name of the game, not mouthing off, like a rabid dog about chicks, and what not.
And oga bachelor maybe your style of approach isn't in anymore, that's why those chicks just kinda shenk you off.
Abeg step up, brush up!! YOu need am.

Blackqueen28;

I am happy that you are expressing your thoughts and beliefs on the matter of marriage and culture. I married my high school sweet heart and she is Afro-American; I am Nigerian-American. She did put me through the run around and all that but I think all young couples go through their trials and tribulations.

I totally understand the stresses you expressed in your posting of the racial issues Black people experience here in the states. My father a PhD holder in business told me when I was much younger of the issues he experienced as a young man in the US. Now I am seeing things first hand for what things are really like as I work in the financial district. It is truly a sad situation.

The cultures of the Afro-American and Nigerian-American are different and being married to an American I do have some understanding for those men that go home to Nigeria to find a wife. Now mind you out of my 32 years on earth the maximum time I can say I spent in Nigeria may be less than 2 years. I do love my wife but there are many issues we have. I am not looking to command the relationship but a friend once told me you cannot have two people driving a car with two steering wheels and one must take the lead.

My wife is independent and hard working we both make good money. She decided she wanted a new car and went out and bought one after I disagreed with the idea. Truly I wanted to build capital and buy a house. I am the first son and my parents have two homes in NY and around five pieces of property in Nigeria and by right it is mine. But I wanted my own and wanted to do it with my partner (my wife). We argue a lot because she just does not want to hear what I have to say. I am a Christian man but I do not go to church regularly. I try and get my wife to escort me to church because I do find it important for our relationship but I go only with our small son. Her argument with church is the injustice she has witnessed in church by those leading the congregation.

I have nothing against American women because I do consider myself American first but there are differences. My mother warned me but I did not listen and my parents have resided here in the US longer than I have been living. Now my wife and I hardly speak because I am tired of arguing and honestly ready for a divorce. I blame myself and fear for my young son.

This is one issue that will not go away because under it flows a huge river full of so many impacting issues. Baby-NY, thanks for sharing your personal experience. It throws more light on the matter at hand.

I personally think Black Queen has not been open-minded in her FIRST SERIES OF POSTINGS. Her approach changed late, but the fact remains that it takes 2 to make any relationship work. It takes sacrifices on either part. If the black American female has been brought up to assert her presence in every relationship, then those relationships are doomed to fail.

Let me clarify. 2 captains cannot run a ship or it will capsize. The same goes for a home or relationship. Someone has to take the role of the "lesser equal". Even after issues have been discussed and a decision made, someone has to be in the forefront of implementation. Nigerian women who see their husbands as the head of the family are not necessarily cowed and tamed. They know where their power reside and they use it when their is a need.

I don't have figures, but we all know marriage is not the institution it could be in today's America. Divorce is so commonplace. Investigate a little and you will be amazed at the tiny things that separate people, issues that could have easily been worked out if someone had decided not to make it a battle and considered their children. When Nigerian men go home to marry other Nigerians who have not been overly exposed to this American way of doing/seeing things, believe me, they go home to marry peace of mind. They avoid women here who may exhibit the "Tawa" syndrome - women who are more American than Americans. It isn't about controlling and dominating. These women have power and use it powerfully. They can make their husbands do almost anything - not by yelling and brow-beating him, but by using common sense. Let my mother tell you stories.

Be well.

I'm a Nigerian woman living in Nigeria and I was just discussing with someone today about this same thing. He said to me that a woman's life is made to please a man and he supported this with what the bible says about a woman's submission. Then I asked him this, " Did that same bible not say that a man should love the woman like Christ loved his church? Did this same bible not go ahead to list the characteristics of this love i.e is not boastful, does not look for it's own gain etc?"
The truth is that some men tend to use this submission excuse to expect a woman to do all the work in a marriage- and I don't mean paying the bills! Marriage is the job of two people and while I completely support that a woman should be submissive to her husband according to bible standards, the man also should not always expect the woman to be the one to give over, bearing in mind the virtues of the love he is supposed to have for his wife. Marriage is a two way road. Despite the fact that most young women in Nigeria are brought up to believe that the man is the head, many of them still have problems with relationships because while they are giving all, some man refuses to give anything, forgetting that the best way to be a leader is by being a servant first. So coming home to marry is no guarantee that you're going to get what you might call a submissive wife.
As for Bachelor, anyone who thinks he is doing a lady a favour by marrying her, should not be surprised when the woman suddenly decides she doesn't need anymore favours and clears out. Have a nice day. :cool:

I have to agree with you Clairj. That is one of the problems, no matter where you are from. Men tend to misuse that scripture that we are suppose to "submit" to them. Yes, God said a husband is commanded to love his wife like Christ loved the church. That means treat her the way Christ treats his people, with Love and respect. Not using these "cave man tactics".
Yes, I admit I may have come off a little strong, but by reading the post from Baby-ny, he seems to understand why I feel the way I do.

It is first about honor and respect from both parties. Women were not put on this earth to "just" make a man happy and only fufill his pleasures.

That is the reason for divorce so much these days. Men need to learn their role as husbands, and women need to learn their role as wives. Men are to praise and love their wives, Women are to respect their husbands. If this happens, we won't see so many disfunctional families around this world.

It is not about keeping points with each other. It is about loving, honoring and respecting each other.

Claire J,

I don't believe I am doing any lady a favor, in fact I count myself as a lowly man from a very poor background who has had too much experience and information on what REAL life is about, and reality is what most of us are trying to escape from with all these notions of equality. We all know what it takes to get what we want, the only question for us MEN AND WOMEN is our willingness to pay the price required, whether it be humility, submissiveness, achievement, even beauty (ever heard of plastic surgery?), or in the particular case under discussion here, the price of going back to Nigeria to marry a woman one hardly knows.

I am all for women empowerment. If a woman wants a submissive husband, I am not one to discourage her. By all means find one and live happily ever after. Same for men who prefer submissive wives. Just be sure to choose a mate you can handle after considering all the factors involved (sex, money, intelligence, future goals, cultural background et c) We can pretend all we want, but we are not all equal individuals. There is no such thing as equality in marriage or in any other human relationship. Someone has to give a little more, but of course it won't be you or me. ;)

Bachelor.

Bachelor,

I don't believe one has to change their "appearance" to get to any level in life. It is a matter of having God on your side.

You can look like dirt, and still be great.
People who have to change their looks to be accepted, etc...
I think it is called "poor self image".

With God anything in possible in your life. When it is time for something to come along, it will. You don't have to alter your appearance.

You seem to be a very "shallow" man, with toooooo much to PROVE. Who are you trying to hard to please?????

I know you will say, NOONE. But you are!!!
You have to much toooo much to prove buddy.

Be yourself. Let God be the rest.

Bachelor,
one of the reasons there's so much strife in the world is simply because people want their own way all the time. America wants its own way, so it goes to war against Iraq. Until we all, whether male of female, learn the virtues of humility, even if you go to the interiors of Ikeduru in Imo State, Nigeria to get a wife, you'll still have problems.
But it all depends on what you want from a marriage. Maybe you want a partnership, someone to spend the rest of your life with PEACEFULLY, or maybe you just want to get married because it's the right time to do it, you'll discover that your priorities about what you're looking for in that person change.
If you've been in a long term relationship, you'll find that all those factors you've considered ( sex, achievement, money, even beauty) fade away and what is left is the the REAL essence of the person, the one you have to live with for the next fifty years. So if you're prepared to hitch up with a girl because she's submissive though she likes your money, please don't cry and wail if some twenty years from now,God forbid, you've got no money left and, despite the fact that she's well over her thirty year shelf life, she manages to run off with some 'Alhaji' to become his 20th concubine.
Bottomline? Some things are more important than how many trophies you have to offer. You've got to have something else to prop the trophies up with.

Oh, so true Clairej, so true....:)

Hello everyone,
I am new to this site. But i will put in a few of my pennies to the collection bowl.
i am a 29 year-old African-American male with direct roots to Nigeria-both of my parents are from ikere-ekiti in ekiti state of nigeria.. but as with many nigerians of american birth, i only knew of my nigerian heritage when i went to nigeria for the first time when i was about 12. my experience living my teenages and high school days over there in ibadan, nigeria between 1985 to 1993 was at best a disheartening experience. i have personally declared that in terms of living there for retirement-it won't happen. i will only visit for the purposes of seeing my parents and that's that. anyway, employment over there for my field of endeavor over will not help in offsetting my large student
loans. :mad:
with that bit of biological background, i will proceed to my main point of argument. my family more particularly my siblings due to the unique circumstances over the last 29 years consist of two halves- a rather strong conservative nigerian view of the roles of the man and the submissive wife and the more american half consisting more of me and my younger siblings who happened to be raised in america longer than the more conservative two older brothers who lived in nigeria quite early in their lives after being born here.
In my relative short stay in nigeria, i never actually succeed in dating a high school sweet heart over there due largely to my physical appearance-geeky to the "g" despite the american accent. fast forward to new jersey 1994, i had a large number of nigerian females as friends and actually "dated' one but only come to realize that i could maintain a relationship due to the fact that her father was from another set of people known to be at odds with my parents' origin. at stake was the fact i was considered to be too american and soft according to her and a number of my friends at the time, but just perfect for a green card aide. :mad:

......in short i have dated both nigerian women and african american females. to me, there are several differences. the nigerian women i have dated have told me that i am too americanized-some meant that as a compliment most as a let-down. not strong willed, soft not really able to speak yoruba well albeit i could say it quite well but with an american accent (sort of). i guess not wanting to back to nigeria to retire is a disqualifer. cool. i have dated even an ibo girl rather recently who hated american black males only for the reason that they don't look right to her??????????? she would always advised me to avoid black american females because they were bad for me. this i disagree with because my experience with american sisters has been overall positive-no one picking on my accent, or lack of typical nigerian trends-i can be my aggregate self. but my main problem in relationships has been inexperience in part to self imposed seclussion to embark on my career of choice. i really was not a prime choice of younger nigerian women over here and honestly should have seen that as an omen for things to come. i tried three relations with nigerians without success-some of it my fault some not. but one thing came clear-nigerian women are not an option. i don't hate them-they are just not for me as a family friend clearly stated on the day of my graduation from graduate school in 2001. my failure with black females from the states also borders on my fear of conflict arising from growing up in a family where conflicts between father and mother resulted into blows. scary!!!!! i am working on seeing arguments between lovers as disagreements with healthy mutual resolutions and not to run from them in fear of fighting. i guess i am afraid of being stepped on or abused or walked over upon like a dirty matt. but i have learned that a peaceful coexitence can exists with the right person. marrying a nigerian from the motherland is frightening to me on several accounts-one, the lack of foreknowledge is a bad thing-trust me i have seen it first-hand in my family. the idea of a nice submissive nigerian lady is fast fleeting-the sisters are quicly open to the fast life over there and the ease of female freedoms over here. they will seize your house over with a quickness-the tawa syndrome and secondly, i don't have the time or patience for the over the ocean notes of exchange. i don't like long distance relationships and 9,000-10,000 miles of sea water is a bit much for me. in retrospect, i miss my first true love in nj with her nature braids-very strong willed and smart. she taught me a lot about lovemaking but the same issues of insercities with conflicts at the time were overbearing to me. of truth i am not selfish in bed- i have several witnesses to that-hey i aim to please. but my fears of a nigerian relationship is scary as on a daily basis i am reminded of couples who don't acknowledge each other, where each partner are in a partnership of family production and providing a good societal scene. As my cousin put it once, a nigerian man's role in the family is to provide a house, a sense of good societal status and be a sperm donator-sex is really traditional and by virtue of bibical misinterpretation seen as a means as providing children and secondly to provide pleasure to the man. hence the wide spread practice of female circumcision in various (not all) parts of africa-no one wants a reportedly sexually uninhibited female as a wife. personally speaking , i desire much more than being a sperm donator and will not settle any thing less. i now know it's time to brush off the cobwebs and dust of self doubt and take the ever so wise advice given to me on that 2001 graduation day despite my mother's wishes. she will get over it eventually.
there's my spin on things-felix. contact me at folobatuyi@yahoo.com
with comments, concerns, etc.

I feel ya folobatuyi...i do. :(

dear blackqueen28,
thanks for the support. i hope you will find love. love does hurt i guess. my only fear is the fact that relationships in general tend to have an element of a power struggle where one party is interested in gaining the upper hand over the other. i guess it is human nature but sad in the setting of a relationship between two lovers. i feel that's why a good number of nigerian men go back home to marry that country bumpkin who is percieved to be naive to the American tawa ways. unfortuately, with the advent of mass media and by mere association with the feared tawa girls over here it is a sure bet that naive sister will turn on them. so really there is no promises in life. the resolution is to know yourself and remain true to yourself regarding love and other endeavors in life. As for me, please spare me the i-must-go-to-nigeria-to-find-love routine. it aint going to happen. i love it here in America with all my heart; it has been very good to me. Only if Bush doesn't fuck up it for everyone. no offense to anyone out there but this is me speaking on my behalf. i just need to work on finding better techniques to argument resolutions without responding to the instiinct to seek flight.;)

I have come to realize that God is the only one who can help us find "real loving mates".. like you said after a while the "power struggle" begins.... I have been there too..

I just ask to be respected and treated as a human being above all else...whether it is by an american, nigerian, asian... whoever..

I am tired of all the "drama" that we all bring to the table...

:o

Mentally draining... i know i am.. i don't know about you....

Nigerian men who go home to marry do so for the same reason white american men import Russian and more recently Asian brides; to achieve an unrealistic god-like status in their home in the eyes of "innocent and unwitting virgins." And just like their white counterparts, many have suffered the consequences of this unrealistic goal from a fellow adult, some have found heaven, and some like my uncle got a combination of both. He has to cope with her excessive stealing as she sends money home-but he gets to have a woman more beautiful than he could have ever gotten here.

My parents told me the week I graduated from college to marry who made me happy. It came from out of left field, but I knew what they meant. They realized the years they impressed upon me the virtues of finding only a good Nigerian was the wrong message as not all Nigerians are the same, as all Americans are not the same. Also, during my time at college it became overwhelmingly clear that most Nigerians here are not doing so well financially and tend to live in ethnic pockets of America, not always in the center of what's happening and limiting myself to a very small group would be just that-limiting.

Even well-to-do Naija guys at home would have little in common with someone who grew up here unless he was seriously well traveled, which as we know isn't always the case. Most Nigerians abroad see Brixton or Peckham or South Central, Inglewood, South Chicago, D.C., Bedford Stuyvesant or South Bronx as a measure of obodo ibo and rarely the better parts of UK and US. Many go straight to these places from their tiny villages, never visiting the beautiful parts of Nigeria, Port Harcourt, Ikoyi, Victoria,Abuja, Kaduna, Jos, because their parents never saw them or they want to show some brand of ethnic loyalty. These same people have kids abroad who say with authority, "I don't want to live in Nigeria."-as if they know anything about it.

It would be great if every Nigerian, Nigerian-American living abroad who fancied themself to be doing so well visits Nigeria, the parts they have never seen. Not the slums of Lagos or Mushin-The beautiful parts...the parts that many of you can only afford to stay in for a week shai, a run on your pocketbook, the parts wealthy foreigners stay when they work and live there. The parts local businessmen live when their businesses are thriving. The parts as beautiful as Boulder, as clean as Fifth Ave, as bustling as any major city and as expensive as Rodeao Dr. Stop living in a self imposed fantasy and learn more about where you're from and develop your knowledge of it. Maybe then, people will have less time to worry about TO MAIL ORDER OR NOT.

Dear Ife3,
Let's call a spade a spade , shall we? True, during the eight years that I lived in Nigeria, yes, there were slums in the Sango Market area of Ibaden aswell as nice , breezy and well-catered lawns in Victoria Island in Lagos. Regarding knowing Nigeria, I have a pretty good sense of the interactions of the people. Don't get me wrong. The country's climate and its several beautiful spots are lovely. It is the fact the economy is pretty bad. Unlike in Nigeria, the blessings of being in the States is a more equitable access to healthcare coverage albeit not perfect but then again what is available in Nigeria and job opportunities and one does not seem to have these in Nigeria, especially the emphasis on JOBS. Hey, why else would every Tom, Dick and Tracy want to be over here. It is quite easy to say that Nigeria is better than the States particularly amongst Nigerians who grew up there rather nicely. My experience with them is that they still embrace the "lovely images" of yesteryear and tend to be in a shell shock that they are in the USA having to work so hard to get the same things they met with their parents during birth and childhood. The fact is their parents most likely parents had to work real hard to accumulate these wealth and bits of luxury like most honest people on the planet do anyway. But childhood memories wax strong in most peoples' mind. It is a blessing that the USA is the USA-one can be poor and through hard work can be well-off. Not so in many countries including Nigeria. If you don't believe me, then find, the evidence is in already. I am sure you would not be so willing to give up your job and live permanently in Nigeria. And if you are, then do it and let someelse have your spot-unemployment is bit high at 6.1%. Unfortuately, my memories of Nigeria were not so rosy-between the occassion near death experiences with malaria, the rash reality of the enemies-within-the-household-phemonemon and the fact that despite being educated in Nigeria, the prospects of having a house and an used "Tokunbo" care were a bit slim at best left me with a bit of a bitter taste in the mouth. Besides, the Nigerian way relative to the States is to accumulate as much wealth and ship it there but the key point is that one is in a place that allows such a one to do so and Nigeria is not such a place.
In short, Nigeria is great for those who love it enough to live there which by all means is natural but it is also all means natural for a person to get up and leave a place in the name of migrating to relocate and set up shop in another land. So at the dawn of going over the proverbial hill, I have to come to realize that I love it here and by all means will visit Nigeria but never permanently staying there to live.

folobatuyi
:cool:

"Little in common with someone who grew up here"....
Really? If all Nigerian men have so much not in common with "us" american folk.. why even bother to come here??
I am sure they know when they get to america there are going to be cultural differences.... that is a "no brainer"

:rolleyes:


I suggest we all just try to get along.. ok? Because when you are in america... white folks dont' care what country you are from...if you have "black" skin .. you are always going to be considered a second class citizen to them......

They dont' care how many degrees you have, etc... You are still in the same boat as us black americans....
Join the club buddy........................

Fobo, no one mentioned favoring one country over another. My issue was simply the lack of exposure many Nigerian Nigerian/Americans who came here had of there before they left and consequently what they are able, impression-wise to offer their kids.

I was born here and I lived there briefly as a child. I also know that most Nigerians that came here are from the bottom of the economic spectrum, looking for "jobs." In their quest to find employment, some make the strangest assertions about the other country to any willing to listen. The fact is that when poor Nigerians come here from their tiny backyard towns, they are in awe by awesome things like low cost healthcare, but many inappropriately consider themselves "successful" due to trivial items like cable tv, sound systems, air conditioning, designer clothes, even when these items are owned in neighborhoods found at the bottom of the economic spectrum of this country. In these neighborhoods someone making 40k-80k is a god.

The fact is that while some young nigerian/n-a's talk from an unexposed perspective of "never wanting to live there" many of these people could not afford to live in neighborhoods there that are the equivalent of true mainstream middle class here. Interesting while many of you speak what you don't know, many foreigners, some without degrees or lots of money, have been settling there in record numbers, living very comfortably, and working very hard. It'll be funny and sad one day when you guys, living a second class status here but boasting of how great that is, find that the country you "never want to live in" and know nothing about is populated and run by Germans, English, French, Indians, Chinese, Lebanese, South Africans, Koreans and everyone but you. But that is your choice.

Oh, and you're not doing anyone a favor by "visit(ing) there but never living there." I'm sure like others like you, you can only afford to visit for about 2 weeks every few years b/c the money you make is not enough to tie you over there. It's not cheap to live there, I know.

This statement makes no sense and it's demeaning. What spot? You wrongly imply that by living here I have won a million $ lottery instead of just being a hardworking citizen. I am living and working damn hard everyday. My JOB is extremely specialised and honey, there aren't that many people out there who can do it. Which of the many unspecialised occupations many Nigerians here have do you do? Security guard? Home attendant/shit cleaner? professional student? Those you could "give" to a friend as there are no skills attached. Or, like ~20% of Americans right now, unemployed?
People like you give the wrong idea to people about life here(or delude yourself). I have worked here and in Nigeria for your info. A job is something an employer offers based on a set of criteria. An employee doesn't "give his job" to another out of charity.There are qualifications attached to it. That comment was as out of place as hicks who tell foreigners to get out of their country.
Please be respectful. My posts are in concern for the welfare of Nigerians worldwide based on my experiences.

Hi, I am new to this discussion forum.

I am a Black (African-American) woman. I have enjoyed reading the various dialogue on the many issues concerning Blacks and African relationships, African/African relationships.

It has given me much insight on where my relationship with my ex-boyfriend was, and why it was somewhat difficult for us to see "eye to eye" on some issues.

I would like to interject if you will.

I read a post that mentioned about "jobs" Nigerians hold here in America.

I know we all have our preceptions of what positions we find acceptable. I am an educator, but I have a degree in a professional medical field and I am currently an artist.

When I graduated from college, I worked in my feild briefly, but decided it wasn't something I wanted to pursue, and the economy was about to fold. Well, I decided to teach. He was extremely disappointed.

He is an engineer, and after graduating he acquired a position at a reputable corporation, to later get laid off a month later. He was disappointed, but I assured him that he would obtain another position that would be even more promising than the previous one.

He did. I was very happy for him. It upsets me that through all his downs, and outs; His lack of monies during our college times, that he finds it unacceptable for me to be an educator (I have a love for teaching and have furture career goals). Now he doesn't say it outright, but he skirts around it. To me educating is a noble profession.

Lastly, it is my opinion that an HONEST days work while aspiring and achieving goals to better yourself is more important than what occupation someone has chosen. Especially if you are happy with what you are doing, but making moves to get and do more.



:rolleyes:

Thanks for the lovely rebuttal. But of all true intentions, I wanted to clarify one thing. I am not saying that living in the aforementions spots in the world is not good. But as me, I love living in the states. Yeah, you consider that an easy access to heatlcare is a thing of awe to the poor ones of the Nigerian equilavent of the poor rural South as my parents. But as commonly said, a sign of a humane society is the provision of access to healthcare to the eldery and poor-even this is done in Canada and most European countries where the healthcare platform is quite more socialized than over here. Yes, it is the sign of a civilized society that provides such things to its citizenry. It is not just a mere thing of fabricated, over-glorfied handouts to the clueless poor and elderly. I am not saying that your position is weak or unskilled (but so mine-quite skilled and would take a nearly a decade of post-BA/S education to qualify for it)the point I was trying to put accros is that the job economy is at an all time of 6.1% as per lastest Department of Labor stats and not 20%. If anyone left their jobs now, it would not be all that hard press to find someone to replace you. This was not meant to be a personal attack on your character or job qualifications. You have yours and I am quite secure with mine. I just feel that I will only visit and not live in Nigeria. Its mine decision. I am happy for anyone who chooses to live and stay in Nigeria. that's great and more power to such one. Besides, the key thing that seems to link all 6 billion plus people on this place called Earth is the pursuit of love, happiness in whatever form that maybe in the boundaries of not harming another person-well ideally speaking and liberty to exercise the will to enjoy the aforementioned qualities as one sees fit.

I have also worked in Nigeria and here also. Besides, i know that me visiting Nigeria is not doing any favors but with all intentions who said it was meant to be so. I just decided that I want only visit and not live there permanently as many well meaning Nigerians who live permanently there and come here on pleasure and business mattters. Nothing wrong with that at all. Regarding what the Blackqueen28 had said, she is right-the only reason why foriegn blacks are here is because the fact of the blacks here and the good old constitution that allows people who were born here rights as citizenship despite being of foriegn heritage and parents. If you take the wonderful country of Germany, it is well known that being born there does not mean a damn thing-you are a foreigner even if you speak German better than the German Chancellor does. America is ablessing despite what anyone says-one may decide not stay and love their country of origin better-that's cool but as stated earlier it is also qiute natural to leave a country and migrate to another and choose to fully become a citizen of that place particularly if the place has an open arm policy to the immigrant and has the African-American legacy that allows foreign blacks here- albeit not the best but at least it's hopeful.

PS-Blackqueen28, the way things are going, I think we need to change the topic. Any ideas?????
That's all folks
;)
folobatuyi

Sometimes people hate being told what describes them and get defensive. I simply pointed out that a) many Nigerians here and in UK are from the bottom of the barrell there financially and aren't as well exposed neighborhood and skillwise here as they could be and b)Some have children here and with the limited perspective they had of village life before arriving, give their children strange perspectives on Naija bc they could never afford to live in better parts. Instead of responding to that you told me to go back to Nigeria so someone appreciative could "take" my job in heaven and proceeded in a roundoabout way to justify the ethnic pockets (ghettos) some naija dey live fo here by extolling the greatness of black americans and how you are indebted to them. Issues?? This clearly means you grew up in one of these pockets but you would be deluding yourself to suggest you and your family would not have beneffited by a mainstream area while you were growing up, a mix of perspective.

If we're switiching topic to why German/Nigerian and Naija Germans move to the US recently, duh? Germany's economy sucks and the people need to vent on someone different who have small population. They've done that more visibly in the past (can we say holocaust?) As for US and UK being "slightly easier" for people of color to exist in the West, well, there have always been visible numbers of non caucasions in the two countries. In the 1940's, when Japan was America's enemy, Japanese Americans fell to the bottom of the barrell, and Chinese, previously barred from immigration here and limited civil rights, became "full" citizens, even serving in military. In the 1960's and 70's, as African countries showed their most patriotic display of unity and verve for independednce, Black British and Black Americans felt the shift,took the example and waged their biggest fight for civil rights than they had before or since.

History lesson aside now, Naija people for US overwhelmingly inhabit ethnic pockets and need to expose themselves to mainstream more. Also, the children of village people here need to realize they know very little about naija outside of those slums or villages and explore their country more or at least refrain from making derogatory comments about the whole counrty when they have NOT SEEN the whole country. It's absurd that when I would go on vacation when I was younger, I'll see more caucasions and now asians travelling from here and Europe to nice places there and many of you here have never been anywhere and don't think something's wrong with you. Instead, you delude yourself with how "well" you are doing. There are many wonderful things about US, it is the model for world on so much. But everyone who comes here needs to contribute, not just take. They need to add to the pot by informed perspectives on where they/their family is from and not delusional uninformed "i don wanna liv theyr" especialy when no one asked them to because they wouldn't know enough about mainstream america from their ethnic pockets to contribute anyway.

Ife3, your generalizations are confounding. You make sweeping statements that sound like deep insight, but they are often common knowledge. For instance,

My issue was simply the lack of exposure many Nigerian Nigerian/Americans who came here had of there before they left and consequently what they are able, impression-wise to offer their kids.

"most" people who travel ANYWHERE in the world have very limited knowledge of that place. Don't make it sound like only Nigerians are like that. Chinese, Indians, all sorts who come to America come carrying their dreams, half blinded by distorted ealities. Geez, Nigerians are even way better off simply because of the amount of education available back home. in addition, the media is pretty enlightened back home, so you do know a few things about where you plan to go.

I was born here and I lived there briefly as a child. I also know that most Nigerians that came here are from the bottom of the economic spectrum, looking for "jobs."

If you know anything about the patterns of migration, friend, you will know that the key reason people relocate is to escape from what you call the "bottom of the economic specturm" in their country. I said key. There are many other reasons. I say don't slip that statement around the Nigerian neck like a noose. It is the way of the world - most people are at the bottom anyhow. Obviously, your folks where never at the bottom and that's why they came over here to have you.

The fact is that when poor Nigerians come here from their tiny backyard towns, they are in awe by awesome things like low cost healthcare, but many inappropriately consider themselves "successful" due to trivial items like cable tv, sound systems, air conditioning, designer clothes, even when these items are owned in neighborhoods found at the bottom of the economic spectrum of this country. In these neighborhoods someone making 40k-80k is a god.

People will always have different yardsticks to measure success. It is a cultural thing. Success isn't always material as you seem to imply up there. I have all those things you mention, but I consider myself a success because I have arrived at a place of contentment. I can feed myself and my family. I can get up and go anywhere I like in the world today without fear. I can hold up my head and have a conversation with the most brilliant minds in existence - and know some sense will come out of my mouth. I am alive and happy. That is my success, a place different from where I was some years ago. I have progressed and I see it. If I die today, I know a few people will remember me because I deposited some joy in their life. That is success to me. Your generalizations above about "poor nigerians" is totally not well thought out. If the poor Nigerians didn't have these things back in their prior existence and they worked hard to get it in this country, then they have a right to think themselves successful and no one should try to deny them that.

Meanwhile, this particular thread started out as a discussion on why Nigerians go home to marry. It is going elsehwhere now and I may have to close it to preserve it. Maybe someone can move us back in the way we were heading initially. Or have the issues been exhausted?

this particular thread started out as a discussion on why Nigerians go home to marry. It is going elsehwhere now and I may have to close it to preserve it.
If you cannot see the issue being related then you're not trying. If someone is a part of the mainstream in this country, financially, educationally, neighborhood-wise, at least if they strive to be and not always get so complacent with so little (an issue with africans worldwide) they would not be content with near poverty in ethnic pockets, and then, unable to offer what a hard-working enlightened partner familiar with this country and with ambition as to her place in it, look for someone they can feel comfortable with who is even less EXPOSED that they. Because they are at bottom of barrell here in a multitude of ways, they need their relatives to search out a girl so UNKNOWLEDGEABLE, SO UNAWARE, from not even the cities, but the villages and forests of Naija who can make THEM feel upon parcelling her to the US or UK, FALSELY MAINSTREAM AMERICAN. BC to this "girl" you a real man who (at least for the first year) knows EVERYTHING about America that she does not. These are facts. If some of these men like one in particular on this board felt like they truly were a success in the rel sense and wanted more, their first choice would be a partner here who can fend for herself and even enrich his life. Though some might say an 18 year old girl from a village who never finished primary school is the mental and emotional match for a man with a Masters who's hustled for 10 years on Wall Street. YEAH, the way MY CAT IS MY MENTAL EQUAL.

You have a right to your opinion and I certainly will not get in the way of you expressing it. But the conclusions you draw even as you make it sound like what you wrote in the immediate response above is the norm - remain questionable. You and I know how much Nigerians go to school, especially in certain sections of the country. You and I know how exposed Nigerians are to the way of the world through the newspapers, cable TV, Internet and pop culture generally. That is arguably the reason many of us jet out, not just the economic malaise our dear country is suffering. Arguably, I said.

Living abroad automatically means you are limited. You hinted that much in some of your previous postings. As you are limited psychologically (etc) by the fact of distance and displacement, you're also limited in the choices of people you come in contact with daily. We all know to find a wife or husband, people are generally encouraged to be outgoing, meet new people, etc. Many of us are too busy in America to have the time to go to the right gathering where we can meet people of our cultural leaning. Don't even say we can marry outside our culture easily as you know the chinese or Indian in America (as anywhere) will look among his own people first, before looking outwards for a life partner. We're not going into that debate today.

Running this little online space, you can't even begin to imagine the amount of emails I receive asking for places where Nigerians gather, young people in the Diaspora who are looking for other young people like them to link up with - as they have exhausted the range of people they know in their area and now are looking outward using the internet. This is a major reason why Nigerians go home to marry. They settle for the familiar, having their parents arrange something for them in some cases because they have NOT been able to find a partner here. You think they don't look hard enough?

Many of them have been too busy setting up a presentable lifestyle here to focus on relationships, and now that they are ready, they have lost most of the potentials that hung around once upon a time. Look, there is absolutely nothing bad in a Nigerian going home to bring another Nigerian here as his wife or husband. People marry people they meet on the Internet. At least you will be assured of one thing...he/she knows exactly where you're coming from and initial respect can grow to become love or something like it as the years go by. Oh, you think there are still some girls in the village back home? They have all moved to the city, friend. Why do you imagine they will not be a match for the Diaspora Nigerian just because he has "been to" as Wole Soyinka wrote? Is this not America? A year, as you noted, is all it takes for her to acquire his ways. Haven't you heard the stories of men who are short-changed by the very women they married and brought to America? Plenty talk dey friend.

Granted this is not an issue that can be exhausted easily, but we have to be open-minded about it as there are all shades of issues involved far beyond what we think we're seeing. Granted also that some of your points are valid. I put it to you that you cannot say wategorically where your "first choice" of partner will come from. We're talking about emotional connections here and like lightning, it doesn't strike in a predictable way. If emotional connections fail, why not try cultural connections?

And I suggest you stop using phrases like "bottom of barrell" becaue what you consider bottom may be something else to me. You don't know my pedigree. You don't know what some of these people exchanged for what they have here in the western countries. As I have written elsewhere, some people's worst condition in America may be way better than their best condition in Nigeria. One thing Nigerians that I know (I don't know the circles you move in) in America cannot be called is complacent. Geeze, we go to school for so many years back home where there are no resources. Why do you think we will now not seize the opportunity of education and advancement in a system that makes it available to us, even if it is not Ivy League? The Nigeirnas I know here get educated and earn good money by any comparison. They are middle class, unless you refer to those who are here illegally, and that is a whole new set of issues. Many from other countries who are restricted by residency issues are in similar waters. It is another currency of migration.

Be well.

Everyone,

There is nothing as enlightening as statistics. Ife3 denigrates Nigerians earning "40-80k/yr". It might interest everyone to know that only 5-7 percent (depending on the source you use: IRS or CENSUS) of American FAMILIES earn 100K a year. So that Nigerian making 60K/yr may well be making more than 1/2 of the working population.

Bachelor.

Everyone,

I have no hard stats to back it up, but my observation of those around me tell me that Nigerian marriages, including those involving our men who go home to bring brides, are less prone to divorce than the marriages involving the US population at large. I have many friends and relatives who went to Nigerian to find their brides, and quite a few more including yours truly who are planning to do the same.

Human beings (especially Nigerians) are not stupid. If going to Nigeria to marry were such a dicey proposition the word would have spread in the Nigerian community and fewer men would be doing it. There must be something beneficial to the practice or it wouldn't be so widespread.

Bachelor.

There is nothing wrong with men going home to bring brides but it is wrong to convince this forum that MOST who do it are looking for their EQUAL when you consider that MANY, not all, of these "brides" have HUGE AGE GAPS with their to-be husbands DO IN FACT COME FROM VILLAGES MORE OFTEN THAN CITIES and often are brought to fulfill an antiquated version HUSBAND/OGA of the house which can rarely be found in US outside of the 50's.

To the person who says this, I say you could never understand the point I am making so don't wory about it. That tells me a lot about your work history.

"A job has nothing to do with skills." To the person who took my income stat for Naijas out of context, there is nothing wrong with making 40-80k, but considering themselves gods because of that when they live in very bad neighborhoods where they have very little competition is not a good measure. Also, this is not take home, and considering they're sending a chunk of it to relatives they encourage not to work so they can be further adored as EZE OMELORA, they're not doing that hot.

When the person said Nigerians are doing better financially than most Americans, that is dishonestly misleading. Nigerians are a largely IMMIGRANT GROUP. It's like when papers extol Asian Americans as model minorities-it's stupid. They are heavily immigrant, coming here in numbers only from the late 60's/70's. All immigrants have big work ethics. That's part of the problem I'm mentioning. YOU PEOPLE COMPARE YOURSELVES SUCCESSWISE TO BLACK AMERICANS IN POOR NEIGHBORHOODS, NOT EVEN THE UPPER MIDDLE INCOME BLACK NEIGHBORHOODS. So you get complacent living in those pockets and when you wake up every morning, take a look around and see people beneath you financially, you sigh happily, and think you're a success. There's a whole wolrd out there in each of your states that you fail to explore. The sad part is that once your generation does this, your children will not know any better. OR DIDN'T YOU HEAR, AFRICAN AND CARIBBEAN IMMIGRANTS KIDS aren't faring as well as their parents in this country? WHY?? Because their parents came here from abroad with competition in them, but settled in ghettos where they felt like kings of the world because their neighbors were so low. And while BIG BUSINESS WAS WILLING TO EMPLOY MOMMY AND DADDY because they strived to be proper and driven by competition back home, their american-born kids went from home in the ghetto to school in the ghetto back to home in the ghetto and learned to say YO MAN WHASSUP and wear KARL KANI because they wanted to fit into tHEIR NEIGHBORHOOD the parents told them they weer successes in. SO collegtime comes and little Olu and little Jeku can't get rid of their ghetto accent from the ghetto school they attended and the admissions officer doesn't feel they need more ghettoized african americans and opt for someone elese, leaving Olu and Jeku, if lucky, to attend an ALL BLACK college with a national admissions avergae of 70 out of 100. OLU AND JEKU graduate but its been 4 more years in an ethnic pocket and when he goes to look for work, his name sounds Nigerian but his lingo is GHETTO and since they're an international investment firm with a PROPER image to project they must turn both OLU and JEKU away.
Before you bark in disagreement, there are many studies that have been done including a very detailed study by Professor Maxine C. Waters.

Other immigrant groups come here and stay in ghettos the first few years to get their bearings financially. Chinese, who by all accounts come from more harrowing poverty-stricken backgrounds than most Naijas, commiting themselves to $75,000 worth of servitude to get out of China, first stay in Chinatown and then get out. By the way stat reader Asians HAVE THE HIGHEST OUT MARRIAGE RATE IN THE US. Nigerians for some reason LOVE to stay in these places not realizing they can't help their future kids-if they plant to have any.

But everyone makes their own choice. I am simply pointing out an alarming trend. When my parents first came here, they TOOK advice from people. Stay out of the ethnic pockets they were told, you will gain more exposure nomatter how much harder you have to work. My mum finishing school while working because Biafra came and left our family penniless, my father being the first person to get degree for his family in a poor back yard village.
But, if a fly wan follow dead body into grave na between im and i god.

Ife3,

Be assured that Nigerians are not as stupid as you think. After reading your post above I did a mental check of my Nigerian community just to be sure I am not missing something. You think you are the wisest Nigerian family? You think you are the only ones that moved out of the ghetto?

Please, what University did you attend in the USA? You didn't have Nigerian classmates? Have you not met any US-born Nigerians at Harvard, Duke, Penn, Columbia, Stanford and Yale? I know personally Nigerians who earned MD, MBA, and Law degrees from these schools. When some of them send me general e-mails, their mail lists contain as many as 40 Nigerian names with Duke.edu, harvard.edu, columbia.edu address domains. When you come to major State Universities, the numbers are too many to count. University of Maryland Baltimore County is a highly rated state university, as are the University of Michigan and University of North Carolina Chapel Hill. Try a name search in one of their directories using the letter "O", which is a common first letter for Nigerian surnames and please count how many names you will get. This is not a joke: Howard University Medical School and Texas Southern University School of Pharmacy would loose at least 30% of their students if all the Nigerians there dropped out. I know many of these Nigerian students are the children of nurses, cab drivers and ghetto convenience stores, and just like your family they are doing their best to win the American rat race. I think you are not fully informed or aware of the full breadth of the Nigerian community in the USA.

I think your family being rich enough to employ other "lowly village people" in Nigeria has given you the wrong idea about us. You can't even believe that "lazy" Nigerians have anything to be proud of by being the second highest earning immigrant group in this country according to US government stats. Please don't transfer your contempt for the Nigerian poor in Lagos or wherever you are from to us Nigerians here. We are not poor anymore jare. When you get back to Nigeria you can look down on us, but not here please. We don't depend on Oga Ife3 for anything.

Have you attended a high school graduation in suburban Maryland or New Jersey? Or Atlanta? Do you know how many Nigerian kids are valedictorians each year? I have worked in a few hospitals in Maryland and I am amazed at the number of Nigerian doctors whose names I come across. Ghetto Nigerians?
You must be joking!!!!!!! Most of my Nigerian friends in the medical field - nurses, doctors, pharmacists- live in Howard County, PG County, Fairfax. Are those ghettos?
:eek: Bachelor.

Dear Ife3,
I never meant to attack you or demean you. Just meant to put my feelings on as to my preferences and thoughts on going to Nigeria to marry. It is for some not others. Reasons vary from to securing someone percieved to be more respectful or "innate" to the ways over here to just pure preference. The latter applies to me. i guess i was allowed to stay here too long. No biggy. I am for whatever makes you happy.
Regarding your multiple references to the poor villagers of the Nigerian countryside now apparently living like kings in the black ghetto (analogous i guess to the yoruba saying that a man with a single eye is king amongst the blind) is a bit dismeaning. true, some people become complacent living here with its relative ease, but the generalized lumping of all posters as being under the middle class without any sufficient evidence or knowledge of the posters' background is bit self-righteous. True, some maybe living in the hood but some maybe doing so only on a temporary basis like the ethnic groups you used to illustrate your point and like myself. I may not be a store owner or multibusiness owner, but as you suggested, skills come in many forms. Besides, there is nothing wrong with being a villiager, hey they make up 90% of the world population-if they choose to move up the ladder-fine if not fine but sad but fine nonetheless. I have seen Victoria Island and the better parts of Lagos and by all accounts make for lovely places-it just a matter of preferences. As our administrator points out, migration is commomplace in the endeavors of humankind-the descedents of Adam and Eve migrated from the garden of Eden, our parents likewise, and many other ethnic groups across the face of the earth. Likewise, it is quite normal to have little or no knowledge of the new land and probably not that much of the former land. But there are resources-internet, travelling friends/relatives. My analogy of Germany extends more than the Holocaust-it bears to mind that being in the States is great-it is one thing to observe and desire the upward moblity to achieve a greater position and to move from the "black ghetto" as commonly reffered to, it is another thing not being allowed to make that social advancement. Besides, the Holocaust was over 50 years ago and 50+ years fast forward, it is still not possible to advance much as a foreigner in Germany than it is here even with the fact that that upward mobility was denied to some in the form of racism in the same time reference.
Your defination for success appears to be the ultimate pursuit of the ultimate cosmopolitian and acculumating vast wealth. that's cool but that's your desire and by all means reflect on the aspirations of others. i feel that i am keen on the mainstream and aware of the options out there. i am not satisfied to where i want to be but i am on course in a big way. my desire is to be one of the best at what i do and not neccessarily to gain material wealth or follow the rat race to do so.
well, going back to the original topic-why nigerians go home to marry-the reasons are varied with the inclusion of what you put forward in earlier posts but nonetheless those ideas are not the all in all reasons. some are just comfortable with someome from back home. marrying a strong independent female is cool just as marrying a strong male. is too. but the concern is the issue of control. no one wants to be run over like a doormat nor does anyone wants an overbearing partner who does not take into consideration the feelings of the other. The problem with being so strong and independent is that one is so accustomed to making decisions on one's own and find it hard to share the authority and decision making process with someone else. it is at best an hercurean task. it takes a large dose of trust and compromise as well as self confidence in oneself. some don't have it some don't want to and others just want what they are familiar with. it is tough indeed but i guess expanding your horizons is an option, agreeing to compromise with each other is helpful and not to be so focused on the need of the couple to be of equal status but i guess in these times it would help-personal experience. i know i want in a spouse and decided to take my time. i feel that this rule should apply to everyone else.
i am just curious-what is that you do
? i am a pathologist in training.

felix


':)

Ife3,

We have a near-pathologist right here on the board. I'll assume he does not live in the ghetto. Never mind his modesty, I worked for a pathologist in my undergrad years and wether or not they do it for money, all I know is they make a hell of a lot of it.

I repeat, Nigerians are wise enough to know what is good for them, and that includes marrying from Nigeria, living in or abandoning the ghetto, or migrating to or from Nigeria. Always watch what people do, not what they say.

Bachelor.

Funny that with all that talking, you mentioned nothing about what you see happening to many CHILDREN OF NIGERIAN who grew up with their SUCCESSFUL PARENTS in these ghettos here. Why did you each fail to comment?? Secondly, the Schools you named as examples of high Nigerian/NA enrollment Howard and Southern Tex whatever are the very schools I am tallking about. THEY ARE ALL BLACK SCHOOLS or predominantly BLACK with national admission standards of 65-70% out of 100%. Do you know that? Yes there are some Naijas for HARVARD or Yale, but not in the proportion they fill the other schools. The way you people love degree and status and by your numbers, you should realize their is a problem that while the TOP TEN schools have 30% asian population, African American and Hispanic, including Naija, only account for about maybe 7%. Something is wrong O, when African American and Hispanic comprise ~30% of US and Asian only 3% of country O.

When your children leave these backyard predominantly BLACK schools, some with good program, but many with lower national admission average than mainstream counterpart, what major corporations wan hire backyard degree from american born young person. They no gree. Stop deceiveing YOURSELF. As for many of my classmates at my former big ten school, many of them were at a loss after graduation. University was the first time they were in mainstream setting and huddled mostly with the few african americans from equally marginal negihborhoods, missing out on interacting more. Given a false sense of their SUCCESS by their neighborhoods, many felt intimidated on campus when they came across actual "wealthy" americans. To avoid dealing with reality, many of these students aer sSTILL students, afraid to go out in the world and cease studying while their mainstream counterparts hustle. Stop ENCOURAGING ghetto living in DC, HOUSTON, SOUTH CENTRAL, SOUTH BRONX, BEDFORD STUYVESANT, BRIXTON, PECKHAM, BIRMINGHAM... STOP LYING!!!

Ife3, you obviously feel very strongly about your convictions. Do me and other people who are following this thread a favor by presenting a summary of your presentation here. What exactly are you saying and what do you propose as the way forward?

I may disagree with some of your contentions, but no argument is ever completely devoid of worth. There is always something we can take away from any discussion and I wouldn't want your points to be lost amidst the dissents.

Take your time and give us a synopsis and some actionable suggestions. What do you think is the way out?

Any other person who disagrees should also help us zoom in on the specifics of the disagreement. This should remain a learning process.

Thanks.

Bachelor

I have seen some of your earlier comments. Some are true but overall, you have the attitude of a male chauvinist. The type who embodies that dominant nigerian attitude that men are on top, superior and that women are just the opposite.
That's probably the reason why you are currently not successful in getting nigerian women here in america.
See in nigeria, it's rare to see an "expired woman" (over age 30 as you allege), date a younger man... at least not as much as the men or consider a woman who already has a child to be a potential wife material.
However here, in this U.S., it's happening, thankfully on a much larger scale.
I see so many black american "baby mothers" find men who guess what? find them attractive and even want to marry them. Thank God the black americans here don't see having a child out of wedlock or being over a certain age as a problem. This is also not limited to black americans, whites, latinos also have such broadminded attitudes.
As a 22 year old female who grew up both in nigeria and the states, I don't feel I have to run or settle for any man just because I want to get married.
You feel that you are all that and that we want you... wrong!!!. I have qualities I want in a mate and honey, if you don't have it, I am not settling.
So what, you think I'd miss your money. I make mine. Or you think I'd be a lonely woman. Hahaha. I'd rather be lonely than settle for a man with your type of attitude.
Besides, what's all the fuss about marriage. Daily we hear of people getting divorced and that cuts across all ethnicities so it means marriage isn't all that.
If i want kids but don't have a guy, i could just as easily go to a sperm bank and fertilize myself okay!!! I could say, oh, I want this, this and that reflected in my child and they'd find me a donor that's a match.
Go ahead and go to nigeria and get your submissive wife. I hope she makes you happy
And just so you don't think that I'm one of those bitter females who has no man, let me tell you that i have them coming in droves. I just don't like ignorance which I saw reflected in your post. You might have gone to school but you aren't educated.

Folabatuyi and If3 posts, loved your posts.

You just told him girl........ Amen...:)

Dear Nkem,

I have met you many times b4 and all that finger snapping, talking out the side of your neck is fine when you are 22, but you will soon have reality slap you in the face. I just hope it won't be too late.

I say this with all confidence: you would not advise your own brother to marry someones "baby mother", nor would you advise your own sister to marry a man who already has kids. If nothing else, having a kid as an unmarried teen denotes a certain carelessness in the person concerned (none of my former girlfriends will tell you I'm careless). If nothing else, I would advice against marrying a single parent to avoid the drama involved (higher rates of abuse by stepfathers, child support payments draining the family income, divided affections, sharing your spouses emotions with the child's parent, et c.)

You can claim all the liberal, enlightened credentials you want, I know your type. Most of you all don't practice what you preach. Even when it comes to age, you wouldn't advise your 30yr old brother to marry a 40yr old with 1 or 2 kids, no matter how responsible, nice, caring and hardworking or enlightened the woman is. Even Ms Blackqueen, if she was honest, would acknowledge that college educated Black American women start being more "tolerant" of so called male chauvinist attitudes when they get older and can't hook a man who is not in jail, on drugs or gay. I live in Baltimore right here where you live: many American and African women practically throw themselves at me everyday. I used to oblige them a lot till I decided to settle down and build a family for myself.

As to money, I have never claimed to be all that, but I am proud that I can take of my family when I have one. Remember, money problems are one of the highest causes of divorce, which is why a wise person (man or woman) should build a good earning foundation b4 getting married. In fact, I despise women who can't earn their own way in America. I've encouraged my own sisters and cousins to increase their earning power through education so that they can love a man not for his wallet but for his character. That doesn't mean I would do cartwheels if they brought home a 30yr old single father of two who can't make ends meet on his $20/K yr salary. Africa is a different story, the economy in Nigeria is so hard that if you come from the lower socio political and economic class like I do, man or woman, you will have the hardest time earning a living.

Again, everyone will marry who they want, when they want. As for you my sister, make hay while the sun shines. :D. I am happy you have your youth and beauty and smarts. Some of those attributes that attract mates deteriorate with time and your choices get narrower. And I have to add this: I am happy you are honest about Black American men being viable choices as a spouse. I wish more African girls would think like that, but the statistics say otherwise. Census figures (and my own observation) show that African, and more particulary in our case here, Nigerian girls, rarely marry Black Americans. Black Americans and African immigrants have a lower intermarriage rate than between Whites and Black Americans. That is the REALITY.

Bachelor.

Bachelor

You don't know me. I haven't met you and you certainly don't know my type. I am not one of those feminists who go about "snapping their fingers or talking out the side" of their necks.
I don't usually come to N.I.A to browse but your post caught my eye and I just had to come and refute that ignorance.

About 5 years ago (when I was still in nigeria), I might have advised my brother (if i had one), not to marry a "baby mother". That was the type of attitude prevalent in nigeria and since i grew up there, i reflected that.

But coming here and seeing what obtained, changed my outlook. Who was I to judge a girl that was probably raped or conned by some guy to have sex and ended up pregnant?
More importantly, who was I to impose my own culture and attitude on someone who doesn't know or was brought up in mine?

The basic classes in speech and sociology teach you that there's no dominant culture in this world. Many americans currently frown on african customs like female circumcision and tribal marks but does that mean that all africans would have to change their's and accept the american way of life?

I have friends among those who have kids and they are really no different from other people my age who don't.

They have the same problems except with added responsibilities.

To you, having a kid as an unmarried teen denotes "a certain kind of carelessness". To me, they are just people, sometimes with unfortunate circumstances.

Some women do grow older and feel a need/pressure to settle for any guy just to get married. That's on them. Like I said earlier, I'd rather be lonely.

Good for you that women are throwing themselves on you. However, I believe that once they get to know your real attitude.... they take to their heels. How else would you explain you currently without a girlfriend?

Money isn't the only cause for divorce. Don't rich people divorce? To me the main causes are incompatibility and unfaithfulness.
So my dear bachelor, even with all your money, you might get an african bride whom you later discover is incompatible with you intellectually and be one lonely sorrowful man.

Pity

Dear Nkem1,
First , I want to welcome you to the site. I was reading your last post and found that you have some good points. Personally speaking, I am a bit hesitant of the concept of marriage right now due to previous experiences. I guess i will get over them with time.
Anyway, I wanted to say that the thought that teenage pregnancies are largely due to the results of the conning man or a result of rape is a bit of overgeneration. Most likely, teenage pregnanies are a result of a multitude of biological, pyschological and environmental factors, with the emphasis being on the latter two and not neccessarily biological. Being at home for a while now affords me the chance to see a lot of the typical "Maury" and "Ricky Lake" show and by large the players involved stem from families without structure and younsters under the disguise of wanting a baby really are crying out for love and stability in their lives. Also, the added factor of having sexually matured bodies without the mental backup that comes with a sense of self and age, they are bound to make bad judgement calls. I don't see this phenomenon as a biological defect in them but a sad situation of bad environment and judgement calls. yes, men or boys have a role in these situations with the flagrant lies just to get into the pants of these ladies, but with most human issues, both sides of the party are not acting in a vacuum-never has been and never will. The ladies had to be willing to give in and the men willing to "lie " to get their way. One can argue that the solution is to encourage such ladies and men to shoot towards active endeavors such as sports and expose them to new opportunities such as career options , internships etc burt a lot of this would depend and would have to start at home 'cause a lot of these cases are a sad continuation of a chain of family events.
The interaction of marriage is again multifactorial and involves a number of cofactors. I feel that marriage should not be based solely on the accumulation of wealth-but it is quite important-you kinda don't want to be marriaged and 5-10 years down the line come to realize that one or both of you does not have any credit if life depended on it-a truly sad and disruptive situation in terms of future plans, but also personality compability- a thing that is key but usually number 5,6,7 of the top 5 things looked for in a partner. Another thing is intellectual/goal compability-is he or she mentally stimulating to you, does he or she feels threaten by your wit or intellect, does she or he appreciates this important trait in you especially in the 20-30's when most are in the process of discovering and horning this trait out via careers and other goals. Beauty is great but as one poster stated earlier, it does not last. The sad realization is that people still want to live by the high school basis of defining a good mateb and still play the selfish role in the relationship including choice of mates and pleasing that mate versus self.
On touching divorce, it is true that the most common causes include unfaithfulness but my question is that is it mostly men that serve as the offender , is it mostly females or is it both? I think it is roughly equally over the wider populsation but tha ladies are far more advanced in covering up their cheating ways than men. Share your thoughts on this one.
In sum, one just has to know one's self in terms of what one want for self, in that spouse, and to appreciate the realities of choices-going home to Naija might be good for some but not all-that incudes me. Regarding the teenage pregnancy issue-i recommend more advocation of the use of condoms, more encouragement to participate in activites other than hanging out in the 'hood after school- i don't know-i am sure that it's more complicated than that-life just is-but this is a start.

To you Mr. Bachelor...Good Luck..the only woman who would be interested in you would most likely be "desperate"...or until she realizes what she has ( which is nothing) and decides to divorce you and all of your education and money....LOL....Whatever!!!

( And yes, I said that as I popped one finger and shook my head)..

Teen pregnacy is a result of environmental and psychological factors ( I strongly agree with folobotyi)...along with other factors concerning that particular teen...

I am sooooooooo tired of your self righteous attitude Mr Bachelor...as if your s**t don't stink like the rest of ours....

There are just as may issues in Nigeria as well as here in the US...stop trying the play the "I am not as bad as you" role...
And we could talk all day long about what is the cause of this, and that here in America as well as Nigeria...
SOOOOOOOOOOOO...with all that said Mr. Bachelor...I have no plans no desire to marry a "male chauvinist pig"...nor are those the type of men I attract...with all that said ......
I strongly believe "we attract who we are"......so..it is most likely you would end up with someone who is just as "arrogant" as yourself.....That would be a good thing...Because then it would be one less "jerk" on the streets of America.....

Have a good day..:)

I tried sending this response yesterday but was having problems with the server. Anyways.

Folobatuyi



I didn't say the problem with teenage pregnancy is solely due to being raped or conned by some guy who wants to have sex. However, I rank them highly among the causes of teenage pregnancy and I'd tell you why.

First of all, there are different types of rape. There's the one which we all familiar with i.e. stranger rape were basically someone comes up and assaults you. Statutory rape is sexual intercourse with a female or male who is below the statutory age of consent. Since most fathers responsible for teenage pregnancies are significantly older, I consider them rapists. Again, this is just my opinion.

As far as the girls/women being willing... I beg to differ. See men especially as regards younger girls are very slick. They know just what to say or touch that would make the young girl willing. The girl might think she wants it not knowing that she has been coerced to do the act. It's all pyschology however this does not explain all the cases.

Regarding money, I am not saying it isn't important. Hell why else am i studying business management? LoL. But my point to bachelor was that there were other factors just as important (incompatibility and unfaithfulness) that could break down a marriage.

As far as cheating and the question of who cheats more... I'd have to say men. This is not because I am a female and trying to side with the women folk.. NO. It's their hormones. It's mainly what they think about. A woman can do everything for a guy and he'd still go out and cheat. A guy will say, OH I have wifey at home but I still need a whore?????

Women cheat as well, I am not denying and some are very good at covering up but so are the men. But most times, a woman won't just go out and just cheat on her husband/boyfriend unless there's something seriously wrong in the marriage/relationship.

In essence, men cheat more than women.

Dear Nkem1,
You are right about the younger female and older men rape scenario. It is uncalled for and quite illegal even if the lady reportedly wanted it. A big no no!!!!!! In other scenarios, an automatic assumption of quilt to the man is uncalled for and unconstitutional-all evidence and routine cross-examination should be examined first prior to assigning guilt.
I still feel that the frequency of cheating is roughly equal-ladies are just far more advanced in covering their tracks. Well, if not so in the earlier years, they seemingly catch up in the future.
Regarding Bachelor, my advice to you is to beware of wanting to go home to marry. As in life, there are no guarantees.


Thanks for the lovely posts, everyone- I think we are finally back on the real topic.

feel free to contact me at folobatuyi@yahoo.com

Hi Everyone,
Nice to see our thread all fired up and generating lots of passion. But one thing that has caused a lot of these arguments are the generalizations made by several people. Ife3 made a number of salient points but in her passion angered several people by generalizingand so did others. But it just shows that different people have different ideas about how things should be. But now someone should please take us BACK to the original subject of this thread. To discuss other topics, we can easily start another thread so this one doesn't loose meaning.
Bachelor, I thought by now the wedding bells would have been ringing for you and Ekaette. Remember to invite us;)

Claireij

I think we have discussed the topic at length. The ideas we put down ARE related to the topic.

Just to rehash some of the things we discussed

The men go home because the women here have "opened eyes". The women here won't just sit down and take crap from any man.
They make their own money, are independent and demand equality in a marriage. The women here would report the man if he dares abuse them physically and best of all, in a divorce, would take half of his property. hahhahaha

I was just playing devil''s advocate there for a second.

Basically, my point is, men who grew up in nigeria and know what obtains there don't want a wife with that above type of mentality. They want a wife like their mom, submissive to the husband, cooks, cleans and shuts her trap. A woman who basically feeds their ego.

I don't know of many women who go back home to nigeria to marry. This is strictly a man phenomenom.

My parents actually met here in the states as students and got married. I hope to do the same. I mean, the boyfriend I had in nigeria would not be able to relate to my experiences here and my growth.

To avoid the danger of generalizing, let me just say that all my sweeping statements are true of many nigerians but not all.

Originally posted by nkem1
They want a wife like their mom, submissive to the husband, cooks, cleans and shuts her trap. A woman who basically feeds their ego.
This may be because Mother is the image of the ideal woman for many men. It has been said that men marry their mother and women marry men who take after their father. I don't see how that is a bad thing - unless the person has grouse with his own parents. What you folks continue to miss is that my mother may be "submissive", but she is also a dynamo of power. She doesn't waste her energy trying to win battles, prove points to my father. She uses subtleties to have her way. While the old man is huffing and puffing, he still ends up often doing precisely what she wanted in the first instance. Go and read up Sidi in Kongi's The Lion and The Jewel.

Originally posted by nkem1
I don't know of many women who go back home to nigeria to marry.
Isn't that a sad thing? Is that why many of them remain single late into their lives in the Diaspora? I mean when the men get stuck out here, notwithstanding all you have said, they still have the option of going home to find a wife - a woman who will become knowledgeable in the ways of the West in a matter of months and will still know as much as that other woman you thought they ran away from from. I mean the woman from Nigeria can still go to school here, learn her rights as a woman and become just as liberated as the woman who has been living here forever.

It makes me think there is still some other unexplored reason why Nigerian men go home to marry. I mean i have heard of women who come here, get acclimatized, school and then clean up the man in a divorce years later, so as long as there is the exposure to the Western ways, the so-called woman from the "village" does not remain stagnant. She grows and becomes as enlightened as the one who has been here forever - but was never married by the man. The men are aware this will eventually happen. So, I don't believe it is a woman they can lord it over that they want.

Originally posted by nkem1
My parents actually met here in the states as students and got married. I hope to do the same. I mean, the boyfriend I had in nigeria would not be able to relate to my experiences here and my growth.
So...Did you dump him? Why can't you marry him and bring him over? Or you don't think he will so totally understand all that you think he cannot now understand in just a matter of months?

I guess I'm just "playing devil's advocate" here too. My conclusion? Each man and woman to his own. You do not know the demons riding me rough-shod. I do not know your motivations either. It is a vast world where our current state of being is determined by our individual backgrounds. The African Americans who have been posting here would probably be saying something different if they had grown up in the village and that "been to" young man arrives from America to marry and take them away with him. Or you think the woman who is being married and brought to the US will agree with some of the postings above? The story is different for each individual. Being totally FOR or AGAINST in this sort of battle leaves all bloody, when either arguments obviously have their PROS and CONS.

It has been a wonderful debate, folks. I am educated. Thank you for stopping by.

:D

Sola

True, some people would like to marry someone who reminds them or acts like their parents but then again, not everyone. How about those who had pedophiles as dads or prostitutes for moms, would they like to marry such people? I think not. Regardless, I still see your point


I think the reason why it's easier for a man to go home to nigeria to marry is because, his family can organize a wife for him. I haven't heard of a woman's family organizing a wife for her. Have you? The idea is "a man marries a woman not a woman marries a man" and many women still feel inhibited to go up and ask a man out for date not to mention asking him for marriage.

I didn't dump my boyfriend in nigeria. I came here still very much in love but as time passed, we drifted and after a while, didn't have a lot in common.

Why do naija women not go home to MARRY men? Anyone pretending not to know the answer is either faking or optimistic.

The one case I saw is still a tragedy in progress. One, naija men are suposed to be older than their wife and in control. She was very successful, but worried about losing out culturally here, so her family arranged a marriage, he came over. He resented her and her success from the beginning, because even though he had "degree", it was useless until he got his bearings. She was always one step ahead of him career wise and he would put her down because of it. Even after they had a child, and he convinced her to bring his mother and siblings,THEY became collectively resentful. Decided it was time HE married a REAL wife, who was HALF his age. This never went through only because a few intelligent naija for here warned (I SHOULD SAY THREATENED HIM THAT THEY WOULD TAKE IT AS A PERSONAL OFFENCE WORTHY OF RETRIBUTION) but his mother and siblings still encourage hm to divorce her. The saddest moment was when she tried to become submissive wife/doting daughter in law and fiancial executive simultaneously to no avail.

It CANNOT work because he will have OPEN EYE from day one encouraged by his entire clan even before he actually learns how this country runs. HE knows his status compared to his wife, nomatter her education, life experience, success... How can a student teach the teacher before the first class? And who wants to deal with misplaced ego after a long day of work?

With men who bring women, I must disagree with Sola's point, that they will become the cultural equal of "the liberated american." There are women i know, who, for years were not allowed to the leave the house here, were not allowed to work for years until they began to freak out due to boredom, and some who are still not allowed to wear make-up. This happens here. How many women in naija cities are not allowed to wear makeup??

Lastly, like Nkem1, my parents met in this country, and while he appreciated her being very cultural, growing up I noticed his resentment when she "outshined" him. This is the most important factor in why women CANNOT bring men. There is rarely divorce in niaija community which may not always be a good thing.

this is a great forum. it's interesting to see all different views. ife3 i think you should try and make your point alot clearer, what exactly is it that you are trying to say?:confused:

one think for sure is that alot of us tend to forget where we come from once we get to the united states. We seem to quickly and easily assimilate western culture and lifestyle and we automayically assume thatit is the best. what works for someone else may not necessarily work for you. it is ok to be a single mom in europe and the states but it is NOT Iin Africa, Asia, Far East, Arab world and so many cultures that are not "western". I believe it is important to take note of customs and values wherever you find yourself. What you where taught to be acceptable could be a taboo elsewhere.

BACHELOR DID U GET MY PRIVATE MESSAGE.

I am an Americanlady, Texan and have dated a Nigerian man. I want to get married, but it's not working out. He is sucessful and family minded. I find that appealing. American women want men with these traits. Why not date some American ladies?

ihow long have you two dated? when you have misunderstandings what are they usually about, you should start looking from there.

With all of the "madness" that me and my nigerian boyfriend went through the past months...one thing is for sure, we have managed to still be together..

I know in the past I may have said some things out of "frustration" that were mostly because of our differences...

But, for some reason through it all we have never been able to let each other go...even after we called ourselves breaking up we still called each other and talked almost everyday...

We have decided to get married at the end of this year...

So, i say all of that to say this...In spite of our "many"differences we have had one thing in common and that is "patience" for each other...because the truth is life is a learning process we deal with everyday we wake up...

Something else I have realized "Not all men are the same just because they come from the same place"...and goes for anyone...

Yes, we still have our disagreements, but we are learning to respect each other opinions and way of thinking because we know it is not our fault...it is just where we were born and raised..and being born here in the United States I have a different approach to alot of things...

What matters most is that we haved learned to "respect" each other for no other reason than we say we love each other and with that comes much "tests" and trials to see if it will stand...

Well we are still standing in spite of what i have said and others have said...

Blackqueen23, that is maturity. Whether we marry in Nigeria or America, what matters is the patience and understanding that will take the relationship through stormy waters. That patience has to come from somehwere.

The folks who go home to marry...To receive a visa, they still have to produce a valid marriage certificate. And if legality comes in, the wife married in the "village" or the one married in the city, both will have the same rights as wives in an American society. If the guy who marries the villager thinks he can lord it over her here, she will get legal aid and take him to the cleaners, period!

Nice to see you coming full circle, Blackqueen23. I pray it will all work out great for you guys.

american lady you are correct, american women are trained to be independent women, but in nigerian society the women are taught to latch on with the man with the biggest pockets. Merican culture teaches us to get out and take care of ourselves after we get out of highschool, but in nigeria a woman ticket out the home is a man . So a nigerian man finds it hard to deal with a woman that doesn't need him when it comes to money. He wants to be able to dangle a few dollars over a nigerian woman head from back home so he can mold her into the wife he wants. Wake up nigerian sisters, you do not need a man that will throw in your face what he has done for you .

Mond, you just took this discussion back to the stone ages with this contribution that is unsupportable. I mean, come on! What do you think Nigerian women are? Is it this same independence you tout that makes America the nation with the highest divorce rate in the world? Nigerian women hardly consider divorce back home as problems in the home are taken to the parents and elders who all come around to fortify the bond. Let this same women come to America where the extended family bond is missing - and they suddenly discover divorce. Such independence!

Are you telling me the average American lady will not settle for the rich guy in a blink in this era of crappy reality shows like THE BACHELOR, WHO WANTS TO MARRY A MILLIONAIRE and FOR LOVE OR MONEY? The average HUMAN BEING will settle for a millionaire any day, so don't throw stones at Nigerian women.

We are all moulded, all of us, into something somebody else wants. Parents mould their children into what they think is right for them. The society moulds all of us, just as the Govt contributes to the process. Mothers mould girls differently from the way they mould boys... So what's that hogwash about a Nigerian man moulding his wife into what he wants? Do we ever stop growing? What's to stop the moulded woman from changing when she arrives the so-called independent american society? Why do you think Nigerian men throw in their wives face what they have done for her? Oh, American men don't do it? Please!

This is all individual. People are different, so stop generalizing. Give instances to back up your absurd claims. There are crappy Nigerian men and women as there are crappy American men and women. It doesn't matter where you get your wife or husband. If both of you learn to care about each other, it will work out fine. If you decide to be selfish and inconsiderate, it fails - where you live notwithstanding. Marry and run away to Mars if you like. If you're a crappy person, your sins will seek you out. Let Nigerians marry wherever they will. Each (wo)man to his/her own.

well, i know many people in nigeria that got divoriced and remarried .... or they do not waste their time divorcing , they just get a few new wifes or girl friends they can not take care of.

That just tells you no nation is perfect. You need to be objective, or try to be in the least. Of course we screw up in Nigeria too. No one is saying we're perfect. This is a public forum and fairness is paramount.

Peace!

Talking out of tune is always comical from unexposed people. On the subject of Naija culture with respect to women, yes men do have the upper hand publicly, but that is not much different from here. The women's movement in America only took place recently, and as far as historians show, did not do much for black american women in the black community.
As for American women not being "taught to latch onto the man with the biggest pockets," I'm sure you gest. What do you call the thousands of young american girls barely out of h.s./college, encouraged by their mothers to sleep with and try to hook NBA and NFL athletes before the ink has dried on their contracts-which resulted in the death of some who's one night stand athletes did not want to keep along with a child. If you really are american, you're familiar with young girls chasing the guys sporting the BLING BLING even if all they are are struggling rappers. Like the CHICKEN HEADS as they've been notoriously termed, who by the hundreds follow campers of performers across the country on tours in hopes that by getting pregnant and hooking him, they and their moms will be taken care of for life. Is that what you mean by being taught to be independent?

Or perhaps independent refers to the alarming number of successful black american men who find black american women too needy and unwilling to work or contribute financially to the home, only spending on clothing sprees, so they routinely flee the marriage to upgrade the needy black american wife for a working white american wife-ala Bryant Gumbel, James Earl Jones, Sidney Poitier,a host of jazz musicians, financial executives, etc.

Lastly, you know NOTHING about Nigerian society my dear, for the last thing Nigerian women are known for is not being independent. Anyone who's visited Nigeria for a weekend will note the preponderance of small businesses run by nigerian woman, either with her husband or without. They ALWAYS know how to make their own money in addition to what a husband gives.

Perhaps only someone more familiar with Nigeria will actually grasp the points that have been made as you have grasped the points I have made about some black american women. You need to liberate your own women before trying to comprehend the issues we are discussing.

Monde

i hope you learnt alot from ife3, and b4 you join any forum please make sure you are properly informed.

ife3 it was an education reading your views

Monde

In case you don't know, Golddigger is not a Nigerian word. You obviously don't know much about Nigeria, the country that has produced the likes of Dora Akunliyi. For your information, she just won an international intergrity award not, surprisingly, for " latching unto the man with the money", but for distinguishing herself in her career. Funny, she also happens to be happily married. Please don't make such uninformed statements on a forum such as this. Thank you.

the only women i see chasing nba stars are white women.

Well...so much discussion! i did not mean to imply that American women are any more/less needy than Nigerican women. I only know that at some point most women look for somone to settle down with, and usually that person will share some of the traits that are most important to her. For me, I want honesty, respect, health, stability and mostly..LOVE:p . As for women hooking on to men w/big $...well I don't do that BUT, I suppose there is an exchange taking place. Don't men look for women that, they can show-off, or women that they feel will be good wives, mothers etc? Is not everyone looking for some-selfish traits in their mate; Be it love, money, or a big butt?

good point.

Your right Americanlady....I agree...

"I suppose there is an exchange taking place. Don't men look for women that, they can show-off, or women that they feel will be good wives, mothers etc? Is not everyone looking for some-selfish traits in their mate; Be it love, money, or a big butt?"

Nice Point Americanlady...so in economics is that called trade by batter or TRADE BY BUTT?

I've been reading this forum with interest, and a bit of amusement.

There was a saying I came across in a film (could never quite figure out which one it was) that says "if someone tells you you're dead, ignore them; if a hundred people tell you you're dead, you'd better lie down".

Bachelor - there must be something wrong that you're doing which is causing so many people to come to the same conclusion (or similar) about you. Of course your "pot don't stir at dem", so you can ignore them, but if there are so many people reacting negatively to what you have said, maybe you need to look again at how you're coming across.

There is nothing wrong with wanting to marry a sister from back home - let's face it, more often than not we want to marry someone like us i.e. who shares similar cultural perspectives and world view. But I'm more likely to marry someone with a similar world view to my own who does not necessarily share my cultural background.

Ife3 - I kinda understand what you're saying in terms of ghettoizing people and culture. I've seen it in action and is something I can't comprehend, perhaps because I have always made it my business to know how the other half live. Having lived in three different parts of the world at different times in my life, it is interesting to see how people behave when they're away from home. But then by nature I'm an amateur social anthropologist :)

Blackqueen28 - I wish you nothing but the best for your future. One thing I could say from experience is try to understand his culture and the world he lives in, whether it's through reading Nigerian or African literature or having other Nigerian or African friends. It's a real eye opener, and I'm grateful to the friends I've accumulated over the years who have allowed me to be a part of their world and willingly shared it with me.

Folo - you sound like a lovely guy and all the best in what you're planning on doing. I understand that sometimes one wants to flee conflict, but take it from a fellow fleer - if you think something is worth fighting for, stay in there and work it out. If it reaches and unreconcilable impasse, you are then within your rights to walk away - at least you can say you tried.

Finally - and most importantly, back on the subject :D - blanket statements don't attract anyone, and I don't believe in writing off people because of a few bad experiences. People will be attracted to you regardless of how you look or what you have. There is no guarantee that you'll find the "right" spouse back in Nigeria or anywhere else if you yourself don't possess those qualities you expect others to have. And wherever you are, a real woman/man will be attracted to a person's positive and endearing qualities. While it's nice to have the financial status etc, we all want someone to accept us as is, warts and all.

What I would like someone to tell me is what is so fantastic about the girls "back home"? Is it because finding one in the US requires a lot more effort? Is it because we assume (wrongly sometimes) that Nigerian American women are too materialistic/have limited personalities, and if so by comparison to whom?

Originally posted by Nozza
What I would like someone to tell me is what is so fantastic about the girls "back home"? Is it because finding one in the US requires a lot more effort? Is it because we assume (wrongly sometimes) that Nigerian American women are too materialistic/have limited personalities, and if so by comparison to whom? Thank you for bringing up a point we seem to have been ignoring. The fact that good Nigerian women (or men for that matter!) are indeed hard to find in America. Who has the exact figure of Nigerian immigrants currently living in America? No one because even the IRS and the Census Directorate don't have the figures (no need to go into the WHY of that now).

What I know from moving around is that there are just a handful of Nigerians in America. I think about 500k. Roughly. And the US is such a huge place, so we are "flung and scattered" (like in JP Clark's Ibadan) across North America. Flung and scattered, people! It is possible that quality is stretched thin, since it has to go farther. Are all the good men and women in the US taken? If not, is she living in Texas while you are a high-flier in NY? How in the world are you going to meet? This isn't the movies people! Why not go back where you have some 130million people, split between the sexes, to choose from? Makes sense, ehn?

Why do you have to put in any extra effort to find a partner? That smacks of desperation already. If we had enough to go around, that shouldn't be the case. Materialistic? Who isn't in America? Isn't that one of the reasons we are all here, truth be told? "Limited personalities"? What does that mean, really?

Look, I have female friends here who are perpetually on the lookout for a good man. I also have great female friends back in Nigeria, wonderful ladies doing well in their careers that are not married today simply because some stupid man did not see how wonderful they are - or the man that should have noticed them relocated to some other place and they missed the one opportunity to discover one another. I don't care where Nigerian men or women find a spouse, as long as they also find happiness. Nothing beats happiness, folks. To paraphrase Achebe, let all the birds perch. If any birds says another will not perch, let his wings break!

Ha ha!

Be well.

Nozza,

I know for sure my views are true b/c so many women opposed them. Ife3 is the real wacko from cuckooland.

My people, sensitivity is admirable, but sometimes the blunt truth needs to be told. What is all this junk about looks don't matter, money doesn't matter, its whats inside that counts? Really? Why is it that most men choose pretty women? Why do "hunky" men attract more women? Why do "geeks" have fewer girlfriends? How many of your flabby, 350lb, shapeless female friends get asked out on dates? I am speaking from what I see around me. You all are just being hypocrites. I'm nearing 30, do you think I don't know how difficult it will be for an average joe like me to marry a reasonably nice woman if I hit 40 and I'm still single? Unless I'm a pathologist clocking 200K/yr I can't afford to wait. People, there is no need to fake anything here. What we have is a marriage market. MARKET. With all its implications.

Now, about going home. You have to realize that my writing has been mainly about NIGERIAN FEMALES BORN OR RAISED IN NIGERIA BUT LIVING IN THE USA who are marriage material. Whenever any Nigerian man I know, including myself, steps into our hometowns or cities in Nigeria on a visit, there are willing ladies ready to take you seriously (to put it mildly). Yet these same ladies get here to the USA and literally, you talk to a Nigerian girl and she is hostile or tries some shakara, hard to get shit. The Naija men on this board, please tell the truth and shame the devil. They are rude!

My problem is not with rejection, everyone can't love you. I am not looking to get any quick booty.....I've done my time in the field. I'm not even looking for any sex b4 marriage, just to get to know a nice Naija lady. Funny thing is, their parents are always getting me to meet their daughters, I'll make a good husband, et c. Most I actually meet on my own. My problem is these ladies play these games......AND MANY, TOO MANY, END UP SINGLE!!!!!!! Nigerian ladies on this board, how many Nigerian females do you know hitting 30 and not married? Yeah, 30 is not "expired", but we all know that Naija men tend to be skittish of women around that age.

1. They don't like Nigerian men.
2. They like (or don't like, I donno) Akata men, but don't marry them (very very few ever do)
3. They don't go back to Nigeria to bring men here to marry.
4. They won't marry white men. (very very few ever do).

So what changes btw Nigeria and here? Pride? Ashamed of Naija men? We don't fuck very well? Whatever the case, JUST GET MARRIED!!!!!! Say what you will, no one likes being alone at 50yrs old.

Na una sabi. Me I don tire for una, make una carry go.

Bachelor.

Originally posted by Sola
...I have female friends here who are perpetually on the lookout for a good man. I also have great female friends back in Nigeria, wonderful ladies doing well in their careers that are not married today simply because some stupid man did not see how wonderful they are - or the man that should have noticed them relocated to some other place and they missed the one opportunity to discover one another. I don't care where Nigerian men or women find a spouse, as long as they also find happiness. Nothing beats happiness, folks.

That, Sola, is what I consider to be the crux of the matter. Which is why I don't understand the argument that dismisses Nigerian women in the US - it's straining at gnats and swallowing camels.

Bachelor, I'm curious - if Nigerian women in the US are so superficial and want to play games, you make it sound like the men are less so. I very much doubt it! Maybe it's because they don't fit the mould that you expect that makes them difficult. Anyone who emigrates anywhere changes, be they male or female.

Once again I reiterate my point about looks - personality and compatibility far more outweigh the looks department. If you doubt me, ask men who are married to what you consider to be ugly women. Look a little closer and you will see what it was that attracted him to her in the first place. I've met loads of guys in pursuit of the beautiful and arm candy only to find them a dead weight - no personality, no views, no dreams, no nothing.

If you can get it all in one package good for you, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I'm not God and never made anybody, so I don't go around calling God's creations ugly because they don't conform to my image of "beauty". And there is a big difference between being blunt and rude, unfortunately people often get the two mixed up.

Bachelor, you're under 30 so your perspective will be very different to mine. I have met many Nigerian women in their 30s who got married to good Nigerian men abroad. When a guy knows he's onto a good thing, he's not going to let something like age get in the way.

Be well.

I have read at least most of the replies to this phrase, and it is mostly the men that showed support for the action. Speaking as a woman who lives in London, UK, the situation is as bad as the one in the USA. Most of the men i grew up with here in london suddenly saw the light and mostly went back home to marry a girl that use to live on their street or primary school love... hope you get the message.

The mistakes all these men made were all the same, some of these men had to lie to women here saying how much they loved them and what not, to get this women to marry them inorder to get their papers and some women had to do 2 or sometimes 3 jobs to support this man in getting is education. It is a shame that when all this creatures called men have gotten to where they wanted, then they realise this woman ( who was there though thick and thin) is not good enough in the first place and they all run to nigeria to marry a girl "who has everything".

I saw all of these men bring in tall, pretty, slim, educated( not that she studied for it when is easier to sleep her way though school), and has all the things a woman can have including sexually transmitted diseases. At first these imported babes are on their best behaviour, you know why? Cause they are still on fiance visa, but as soon as they get the permanent residency then you know their true personality. Am not saying that they are all bad, but it is worth sticking to the devil you know.

I have sat down and thought about why Nigeria men and women living abroad fight all the time. I came to a few conclusions, the major one been "that the men like the western approach to a man/woman relationship while they enjoy the benefits of a Nigerian custom i.e. the man been the boss and the woman the slave or something similar". But you cant have 50% western approach and 50% nigerian custom, it has to be 100% of either.

Like one of the replies i read, the lady in question said that in the western world, women don' t need the men for much( i take it she meant financially), but in nigeria the woman has to be submissive to the man cause he is the alpha and omega of his house.

If a man wants to go back home and marry, all i can say is goodluck but remember if you try to dominate and control her, "the day she is granted her green card is the day she is leaving". All you be left is a huge amount in your expense account (cause it cost money to bring in someone), no woman to show for all of your effort, a child you have to support and all of the man known sexually transmitted disease.

LB1

fellas,

bachelor has a point nobody wants to be alone by the age of fifty. Believe me, the united states is not a place you would like to grow old alone. He is also right about marrying beauty. All this talk about admiring beauty from within is fine and beautiful but, most at times it's all talk. Alot of people do not practice that. especially the younger ones.

I have seen alot of families here who have arranged or are arranging for a man down here to marry their daughter in England. I have seen a lady come back from yankee to marry the guy she was dating in Nigeria a very very very very long time ago.
This just shows that it is becoming increasingly difficult for nigerian women abroad to get married.

i have a female friend(just friends) who works with Citi Express Bank lagos. Now, she has been talking to this man who lives in England about getting a job in one of the banks in England. The guy says he can arrange it but on one condition (and he was actually pleading).........she should get married or at least get engaged b4 she thinks of moving to london.

Girls, husband dey scarce, i have a cousin who has ben picky in her youthful day , now she is not finding it funny. There are just certain things you have to accept about nigerian men and marriage for it to work. Believe me there are lots of single successful nigerian ladies in lagos wey dey look for husband. On sunday go to any of those leading churches you go see them there. There are lots of single programs going on in lagos. So you can imagine.

Uchex1

You make it sound so depressing as if nigerian men are the only ones in the world... At least that's what I got from reading your last paragraph. Look, I love my nigerian men and they are my first choice in terms of marriage material. However, I am not limiting myself to just them. Like I said before, there are qualities I want in a mate and if I don't find that in them, I'd look elsewhere. The world is sooo full of men and the way I see it, if Iman could get David Bowie (correct me if I'm wrong), then there's hope.

The world has changed, a woman no longer has to "accept" anything in a man just to have a ring on her finger. That would not prevent the husband... two years down the line... from saying " I'm tired of you, i want a divorce or a second wife"

But check out this scenario though. Not everyone is a big fan of going home to get 'fresh meat'. Not every nigerian man feels that a fellow nigerian woman is an ideal mate for him. A family friend of mine married a white nurse and they've been together for like 18 years. Now she makes serious dough (about 130k per year) and basically takes care of him and their kids. He makes like 40k. I've observed their relationship and she's cool. I've never seen her shout on him in front of us or treat him as if he's lower than her. I guess the only problem they have is that she can't cook his native foods and anytime he cooks it, she complains that there's smoke all over the house (you know the kind that comes from bleaching palm oil LOL):D

nkem1 - you hit the nail on the head! Why limit yourself? While you would look for your ideal amongst your own, to be honest a good man/woman is a good man/woman, regardless of race or culture.

I've often wondered if we got it wrong by thinking that we're incomplete if we're not married. I guess tradition, culture and history dictate that we all should be married, and in fact, even without the statistics, it won't happen for all of us in reality. Guess I'm one of those rare people who think it is possible to be 40, 50 or 60, single and content with life. I've met enough people who fall into that category to know that it is true.

uchexl et al - all I have to say is that we are not going to agree on the looks/beauty thing. But there is a big difference between being lonely and being alone. Most people don't have a problem with being alone, but loneliness is another matter altogether.

Originally posted by Nozza
Why limit yourself? While you would look for your ideal amongst your own, to be honest a good man/woman is a good man/woman, regardless of race or culture.Look, I don't think anyone consciously says "I am going to look for one of my own to marry in the next month or so". People don't call the shots when it comes to these things. Often, it just happens. You fall for the person first, and then you realize on another level that they are white or black or green and google-eyed. I have a couple of friends who ran into caucasian females in Nigeria and got married to them. When these women left the West for Nigeria, they didn't know they were going to run into that kindred spirit there. All the wonderful ladies I have had any relationship with in my life, something clicked between us. Sometimes, it starts physically. Other times, a wise-crack from her called for attention. A good book in a library, a mutual interest in live theatre, a legion of things... Your ideal comes, that's all. Like sh*t, it happens!
Originally posted by Nozza
I've often wondered if we got it wrong by thinking that we're incomplete if we're not married. I guess tradition, culture and history dictate that we all should be married, and in fact, even without the statistics, it won't happen for all of us in reality. Guess I'm one of those rare people who think it is possible to be 40, 50 or 60, single and content with life. I've met enough people who fall into that category to know that it is true.
Nozza, I beg to disagree with that statement.

Although I am of the opinion that male or female, you can marry whomever wherever, as long as you are 2 consenting adults, I get the feeling that the ladies in this discussion are largely attempting to throw barbs at the man or woman who decides to marry anywhere away from where he domiciles.

If it isn't that Nozza has been out of the country too long (;) ), she would know that where we come from, girls become women and boys become men - and they marry. It is culturally frowned upon to remain single even into your 30s, not to talk of 50s and 60s. While anyone can wake up to change a people's way, the fact is some of us grew up there and are soaked in those ways. You don't take that out of people so easily. All these western ideas of "independence" (how far has it gotten them here?) is hoopla. It is human nature to seek out others, people. It is human nature to love, to be loved. Many who wanted once upon a time to be independent die lonely deaths in their old age, without children or an aging spouse to share those twilight years with. I wouldn't want to wish that on anyone.

It is the way of nature. That's why you have male and female. Ask the people you know who are single at 50 or 60 if they are truly content. If one cannot attract a mate, that's something else. Just don't try to convince us one will be "contented". It flies in the face of reality.

Sola

We don't consciously say "I am going to look for my own..." relationship wise. However, we gravitate towards those who are like us. That's a fact.

We start to reach beyond our comfort zone and embrace others who are "different" from us through openmindedness and education.

I can't speak for all the ladies but my coming to this forum was to let those brothers (who felt that women like us in the states are too big for our britches, not suitable wife material, e.t.c.) know that their generalizations were wrong. I mean, I don't care where, who or what a brother marries but don't diss me in the process because I refuse to be treated as second class. It is indeed possible to be a strong, independent woman and also have a strong, independent man as well. I am independent and I certainly don't want a weak man. Independence to me doesn't mean that I'd reverse the roles and walk all over my husband. Independence to me is being respected for my ideas. It's the ability to take care of me and all that I hold dear without having to depend on another person for it. It also means being seen and treated by a husband as a life partner.

Regarding marriage, I agree, it has been ingrained into our psyche to such a point that some of us still dread the possibility of not getting married. Marriage is good, it was instituted by God, however, it is not for everyone.

Like Nozza, I have seen people who are not married that are even happier than people who get married. Why do we hear statements from people recently divorced such as "Oh, I feel so free" or "Men, that was prison"?.

What I believe is that we humans were created with a need for companionship. We all need companions. Now whether that companion is of similar or another sex is another matter and marrying that companion is also of another matter.

There's no guarantee that the person you marry will not divorce you. No guarantee that the person will live to be as old as you. NO guarantees

By the way, is the toni kan listed on the website the same toni kan that used to write articles for hints... or is it hearts. the name is really familiar.. please let me know.

nkem1 - WELL SAID!!! I couldn't have put it better!!!!
:D :D :D

Which is why I previously said that being alone and being lonely are two different things.

From an early age I started thinking "outside of the box", and decided I didn't want to be one of those desperate women I had met and heard of who were unhappy without a spouse, whose misery was spiritually and emotionally killing. If I got married, fine, if not, life goes on and I was going to enjoy it whatever route it took.

It is simply a fact of life nowadays for a number of reasons - not everyone will get married, as much as many of us want to. If someone wants to go to Nigeria to marry and find a spouse, good for them. Anyone is free to marry whoever they want, but I don't like it when people make blanket statements as if they've met every single eligible Nigerian woman/man in the US (or anywhere else). There's something inherently wrong with that kind of reasoning.

Sola - we will agree to disagree.

The world has changed, a woman no longer has to "accept" anything in a man just to have a ring on her finger. That would not prevent the husband... two years down the line... from saying " I'm tired of you, i want a divorce or a second wife"

Nkem1 you misconstrued what i was trying to say there. When i say 'accept', i was not referring to Nigerian men only, I am generally talking about men and the 'institution' called marriage itself. If you really want your marriage to work and last, i believe there are one or two things you have to accept about your partner and that it could possibly not change. You also mentioned something about, 'what guarantee do you have that he just wont wake up one day and say i'm tired, i'm leaving you'. Once again nkem1, this shows that you have a western concept of marriage, perhaps you've been living in the states too long i don't know, i want you to know that there are people, infact cultures that believe and practice marriage as 'till death do us part'. Now check this scenario. In the United States a man could be banging his neighbours wife, they won't make a big effort in hiding it, infact they might run away together.(that's when "i'm leaving you for another man/woman" comes in) but in africa, asia, far east, middle east and so many other cultures, if a man is banging his neighbours wife, the two will take that secret to the grave with them. i see it as the west being morally corrupt, you'd probably say it's that openness and independence that can only be gotten in the united states, that freedom to be yourself that only exists in the states..... whatever!

like you i love my nigerian women very very much, infact they are my number one choice for marriage. I have dated alot of different girls from different nationalities and culture. they are all different in their own ways but i have noticed that i am happier whenever i am with a nigerian lady. why? could be because we understand each other, we know how to read each others moods, we know when one is not happy, when one is angry, you know what he/she will approve and not approve, we understand each others humour, we know each others expectations, the list is so long; basically you are at home when you are with your kind. you are not making an effort to understand or learn a totally new way of thinking, you are just getting to know your partner as an individual. there is nothing wrong with being open minded about marriage: that is in terms of where you marry from. it is when that has always been your second choice.

nkem1 you say nigerian men are your number 1 choice in terms of marriage, well what i'm saying is if you end up with someone who is not Nigerian, that means you settled for second choice. and that could be a problem later.

marriage is an integral part of the african culture. accept that.

Uchex1

""There are just certain things you have to accept about nigerian men and marriage for it to work""

The statement above was what you wrote... word for word. It's fair to say that I concluded that you were referring solely to nigerian men abi not so?.

I lived in nigeria much more than I lived in the states and I believe that my concept of marriage isn't totally westernized.
Come on now, haven't you seen nigerian men tell their senior wives that they are tired of them and want a second wife? I am assuming you are ibo, you know that this is also common in ibo land don't you?

This particular topic has left me drained. I feel as though I'm going round and round repeating the same thing over and over again. Anyways, for the last time, there are qualities I want in a mate. Whoever I marry must have those qualities... nigerian or not. Once he embodies those qualities, I am set.

well you said it, taking on a second wife, because that is custom.i doubt the reason is because they are tired of their first wife. Kola Abiola that has two wives are you telling me it is because he was tired of the first one. At least they do not wake up and run away with another woman never to be heard of again.

Nozza please try and enlighten me on the difference between lonliness and being alone, i'm a bit confused there. i always thought lonliness was a product of being alone. You become lonely after being alone for a long time. You can be alone now and not be lonely but believe me after being alone for a very long time, loneliness starts knocking at your door. Abi?!

My fellow Naija pipulses,

All I wanna say is, dont't rule out people from other African
countries, or even Asians for that matter. The main ingredients
of a relationship is mutual respect, trust, understanding, love
communication and compatibility. If you find this in anyone, feel
free to go for it. Unless you are like me, and want someone
who can actually speak your language, in addition to other
things. (Pls note, religious differences are also an issue !!)

Regards

Na wa for dis bachelor sha. You sure say na woman born you?? Maybe you drop from dustbin comot.
If not how man go dey abuse women like this. I don't think i want to know you, you're as shallow minded, lily livered, self centered, snotty and rude as they come!!!!!!!!!
Just like kingpin or the other guy pointed out, it's people like you that much rather have chicks that have done 30 abortions since they were 15, than a woman who knows the consequences of her actions in keeping a child, knowing niggers like you will not be supportive, financially or otherwise, yet she still takes the plunge. You make being a single mum sound like good for you na wetin fit you, meanwhile you are used products.
Make i no swear for you oh. God go just make you go dey shoot blank, and you'll end up marrying a woman with 4 kids, who is 50. You go just be toyboy for house, See your mouth like 4 condos. You own 4 condos, and yet you sound as insecure as the day you were born.
Pick your choice, go home if you like and marry a bevy of beauties in the village, but you don't have to put other people down to do so.
A real man, has no need forthat okay. Infact with all this yawa you just dey tear for mouth, all this rain wey you dey draw, we know now, that yours are balls of air, not balls of steel. Do something my man, and stop castigating others abeg!!!!!!!!
Better yet, get a life!!!!!

i

I think the root of all the arguments/discussion on this topic is the conflict most Nigerians in the 21st century face. On one hand, they are attracted to the idea of having a "modern" relationship and yet want to hold on to the past.
This applies to both the men and the women. The men say "I can't marry an uneducated woman, I want a professional intelligent woman for a wife" and then they want to treat her the same way their fathers treated their semi-educated/ non-professional mothers. Sorry, can't work that way.
In the same way the women say " I want equality and respect and to be treated as an equal " and still they hanker after men who are not their equals because they can flash the cash.
Nigerians in the 21st century, men and women, immigrant and home based need to decide what they want out of marriage and what they are willing to put in.......
And if the Naija brothers are not making you happy, by all means widen the net. I am so pissed off at the way some Naija boys here in the UK play very intelligent beautiful girls who hang on all because they want to get married...... I know a guy who borrows one girl's car and uses it to ferry his other girls and when she sees him, she doesn't kick up a fuss "lest she scare him away"....
Not everyone is destined to marry and not everyone is destined to marry a Nigerian, no matter what the people back home drum into our ears.
If in the fifties and sixties people like Prof Babs Fafunwa, Tai Solarin, Donatus Nwoga, Eni Njoku and co married across cultures and succeeded, why not now? No one should compromise their dignity !
If you want to go and marry from your village, fine, but don't complain when she gets to the US and her head "swells " Similarly if you want cross cultural marriage brace up for the wahala that it brings with it. There is no best way, my mother used to say marriage is what each couple makes of it

Mystery men, I concur

There we have it folks. A post that is diplomatic with no male or female bashing.

Mystery Man,
all I can say is that you are indeed not just an above average naija man, but they dont' make them like you anymore!!!!!
I hope Bachelor picked a thing or two there,
needless to say well put, well said, and all so true.
I hope the chicks in england read this too.
Marriage is truly what we make of it, whether s/he is black, brown, green,yellow, or red. Or if s/he is 18, 20, 25. Remember when Bianca got married to Ojukwu there was all that hoola balloo with her family and dad, not talking to Ojukwu anymore, today many years later, they are still happily married, blessed with kids.
My grand aunty and uncle have been together for 40 years!!! It had nothing to do with how much he earned, or if she was a tokunboh.
Thanks a lot mystery man,
you're definitely headed in the right direction!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

black queen i found your arguments about sex and the independence of african-american woman quite interesting.I completely disagree with nigerian men that go home to marry nigerian woman, i believe one could find a nigerian woman that is educated, financially independent, subservient in the united states. I presently live in london and capetown and the woman i'm planning to get married to is southafrican she makes me very complete, i do not have to go nigeria.

On the issue of sex, you said nigerian men are bad in bed and african-american men are the greatest lovers. How many nigerian brothers have you slept with? you should not make baseless generalisations because this a forum for folks who know what time it is and i also agree with you on the issue of the financial independence of black women, i am presently involved with a woman who compliments me intellectually, financially, emotionally and sexually.

Please in future take time to think before you write because your very words can mislead people, I have worked with african-american brothers who think they all that and i am friends with african-american brothers who are humble and understand life.

I am not going to say all african-american brothers are assholes, crack heads, drug dealers, illiterate and gangsters. I believe in the theory of relativity.

peace& much love.

It basically looks like the men are trying to intimidate the women or at least put the pressure on and the women basically wind up having to defend themselves.

Well, I guess I'm what you would call a Nigerian-American. I was born in the US, lived the first 12yrs of my life back home, and have lived the last 13 yrs here. I'm a 4th yr med student and have been fortunate to be able to travel a lot inside and outside the U.S. I've dated a spanish, jamaican, white, nigerian, and i'm now dating an italian-american guy (the benefits of living in NY!).

Point is, i'm almost done with school and am now contemplating settling down. When I was younger I thought i was sure my husb would be a Nigerian man. But after having overall pleasant experiences with these different men, I had to ask my mum one day how she would feel if I married a non-nigerian. And thankfully to my surprise she basically said to me " U know back when i was a young mum i wouldve wanted you all to marry Nigerians from the same ethnic group, religion, and a protestant of course but now I realize that that doesn't really guarantee happiness".

No matter who you decide to settle down with, each type of relationship brings with it it's own brand of challenge. There's just no way out of that. The solution is to do ur best to handle the issues with humility, patience, and remember u love this man.

As one of our brothas here noted Nigerian women need to start being more receptive to men of other races and cultures. They are human too just like you are. U'll be surprised at how good these guys can be to you when they believe they have a good woman.

That being said, Nigerian girls who were born and raised here and those like me who came or return here at a young are far more inclined to experience men from diff nationalities. Now this group would definitely date African-American guys (less than 35yrs of age). Virtually all the W. African girls in my school have a white boyfriend. It is so common. The black guys in our school used to tease us and say it looks you only respond to blue eyes :p

I am yet to post my opinion on this subject but meanwhile, if any you know about anyone who wants to go home and get a bride, let me know, cause i have a lot of good sisters to recommend!!!

NELO,

I BELIEVE IF YOUR SISTERS WERE GOOD LOOKING SOMEONE MUST HAVE HOOKED THEM ALREADY.UNLESS THEY'RE THE TYPE THAT JUMP AT ANYTHING FROM YANKEE EVEN CRIPPLES IN PHOTOGRAPHS.
TYPICAL NAIJA MAN.

Ha! Kingpin,
which one you dey now!!! I think the best way is to download their pictures and paste, for you guys who are very good on assumptions to see for yourself abi?
Na wah for this ya assumptions o!!!!!I fear o! You are talking as if "The Beautiful Ones Are Not Yet Born"

Nelo


that question is not for me to answer but ayi kwei armah.how will i judge your sisters' beauty,xter and all others by their images.person wey u live with for years sef dey deceive not to talk of picture.na wa o.


i no mean harm sha,but u for look for better avenue market ur sisters.may be for italo.

Kingpin
You haven't even seen them and you said if they were good looking...., I suggested to paste their pictures, you said you can't judge from pictures.....haba!!!
Why don't you "Give Peace a Chance"
Mind you, I am not marketing them, I just said if anyone is looking das all!!!
ARE YOU LOOKING?????

Hey nelo

Ignore kingpin jare. Post the pictures, I'd like to see it.

My goodness! The amount of Vitriolic words flowing around here is scary. We have the "My wife must come from Naija" team versus the "Yankeerized Naija wife" team.

The issue is quite simple, to each their own. Whatever floats a person's boat is their perogative. If Bachelor strongly believes that his best bet for a wife is back home, more grease to his elbow. For those who think imported wives from Naija are terrible, that is your own perogative. Each side has its pros and cons but the most important factor that would tilt the scales is the person making the decision on which one to opt for. We can scream, yell and insult each other just to get our views across but that doesn't change anything and that doesn't make anybody's views more valid or better than the other person's.

I have tried out some Naija based ladies, some weren't good experiences but that doesn't serve as a yard stick to judge every Naija based lady. I have tried out some Jandon based Naija chicks, and had some not so good experiences and I have even tried a few Yankee based ones and met with some problems but those are situations relative to the me and the lady in each case. Each girl is different from the other. We need to stop clumping everyone together just because they come from the same area of the globe or because we have heard some horror stories or misconstrued notions about them.

GUYS,

YOUR CHOICE OF A BRIDE DEPENDS ON YOU AND NOT WHERE YOUR BRIDE IS SHIPPED FROM.
SHE COULD BE AN ALABAMA HOME GIRL OR A WAFFI CHICK,WHO CARES ?
WHAT MATTERS MOST IS IF YOU ARE HAPPY WITH HER.
NELO,I GOT NOTHING AGAINST YOUR SISTERS AND WOULD LOVE TO SEE THEIR PICTURES BUT I JUST FEEL YOU WILL ONLY BE PUBLICISING YOUR SISTERS FOR UNDUE REASONS.
YOU COULD DO BETTER BY PLACING THEIR PICTURES IN MATCH.COM FOR WIDER REACH.

DO YOU NOT THINK THAT YOUR SISTERS ALREADY HAVE BOYFRIENDS BACK HOME WHILE YOU'RE TRYING SO HARD HERE TO MORTGAGE THEM FOR GOD KNOWS WHAT?
ABEG LET THEM RESR JO.





C'est simplement moi.

I believe the reason why a lot of Nigerian men go to Nigeria to find wives is because they are looking for submissive, passive women. The majority of women in America, whether Nigerian or whatever, do not care about how much money you have or how many degrees you have. It does not matter because she probably has money and degrees too. The problem is that many Nigerian men do not know how to treat women. I know someone is going to be angry that I am saying it, but I believe it is true. I have never met a Nigerian man, my father included, who has respect for women and sees women as equals. I also have never met a Nigerian man who does not cheat on his wife or girlfriend. With that being said it is no wonder that Nigerian women in America do not want to marry Nigerian men, it is because they are finally seeing that the grass may be greener on the other side. I am not saying that African American men are perfect, but I personally have had much better luck with them than I have had with Nigerian men. I do not plan on marrying a Nigerian man, I have tried in the past to date Nigerian men and have only found myself in emotionally and physically abusive situations with them. I find that a lot of Nigerian men are only after sex and will chase anything in a skirt. This includes old married Nigerian men who will try to harrass my friends and I knowing that they have known us since we were babies. And the so-called serious ones who are only concerned with how much money they have, instead of polishing their personalities. If you can not find the right person, take a look within. Maybe the problem is you and not the women. You may find that if you are introspective that you actually do NOT have it going on and women see that. There are things that are more important to marriage than material wealth. What woman wants to be married to a man who does not respect her or who cannot hold a decent conversation with her? Maybe I am biased because my mother is not Nigerian and because neither my father nor any of 7 brothers is a good example of a Nigerian man, but this the way I see things. I know I am not the only Nigerian woman who feels this way because I had this conversation before.

Alot of times it is "you" and not the other person.
If everyone "checked" themselves and "became" the RIGHT person maybe they could then ATTRACT the RIGHT person.
Just my opinion..
Where they are from shouldn't be a issue.
There are ass-holes in every race and ethnic group.
There are good men in every race and ethnic group, and also bad ones.

...and women....:)

Remiswen

Let me first say welcome to this website. I agree that some of our nigerian men don't know how to treat women. However, it's not all of them. I've had good relationships with some of them and believe it or not, some actually know how to treat women like Ladies.

I don't think you should write them off just because you've been scarred in the past. There are bad men of every nationality and the only way you can weed out the good ones is by subjecting them to the test of time.

However, if you feel that african american men are your best bet, then continue with them. We are not all destined to marry people like us. I myself have said that if I don't find a nigerian man that measures up, I'd look outwards.

I understand what everyone is saying about there being good and bad men in every nationality and race, however, I feel like with a lot of Nigerians it is an accepted part of the culture for men to mistreat women and for women to be complacent.
I am sure there are a few good apples in the bunch, but I'd rather not deal with that. I'd much rather deal with a man who at least is accustomed to treating women well and does not see cheating or beating women as a norm. I've gave Nigerian men a chance and I've tried and tried and I now realize that it's a culture thing. I honestly do not trust Nigerian men, I wish this were not the case, but I have not seen any, NOT ONE and I am not exxagerating in any way, good example of a decent Nigerian man. When I say decent I mean, one who is Not a male chauvanist, one who is NOT only concerned with his money, one who does NOT cheat constantly and one who does NOT seek to control a woman through physical violence. If any Nigerian man falls into this category, I'd like to meet him. NOT for a date, but just because I would be surprised.

I do know 1...........
He is 'all that and a bag of chips". It is because he was raised to treat women like queens. He has a great relationship with his mother and father and sisters. He loves God first above all else.
I have to say he is the best man I have EVER known, and he is one of the very few. I wouldnt' trade him for all the money in the world, and thats a FACT. HE IS SIMPLY THE BEST.
:) :) :)

My God remi

What type of nigerian guys have you dated? What did they do to you to make you have such strong convictions?

You don't have to respond to my questions but like I said earlier, don't discount all of them.

Napoleon Hill once said something to the effect that "Your thoughts become reality". It could be that because you think nigerian men are all bad that you attract bad ones.

Not all nigerian men beat or are unfaithful to their women. I should know, I lived with them.

Nkem,
I totally second your comments. Remi's comments that
I've gave Nigerian men a chance and I've tried and tried and I now realize that it's a culture thing. I honestly do not trust Nigerian men, I wish this were not the case, but I have not seen any, NOT ONE and I am not exxagerating in any way, good example of a decent Nigerian man.
are quite strong and obviously based solely on her personal experiences.

I also agree with Blackqueen's comments that
A lot of times it is "you" and not the other person.
If everyone "checked" themselves and "became" the RIGHT person maybe they could then ATTRACT the RIGHT person.
Just my opinion..
Where they are from shouldn't be a issue.
There are ass-holes in every race and ethnic group.
There are good men in every race and ethnic group, and also bad ones.

...and women.... :)
Remi, I can only advice that maybe you be more assertive and confident in yourself, tuning up your self esteem a nudge or two up, so you can recognize an abuser (regardless of race or nationality) during your initial dates, before you get emotionally involved and a victim of recurring abuse.

People of all races and nationalities, even women abuse, but by now from your past experiences, you should recognize the signs, be more discerning and hopefully your encounters will be more pleasant. The key is to always have your antenna tuned in.
It will be erroneous to generalize that all non-Nigerians are safe, because when your antenna and guard is down, you may again experience abuse from men of other nationalities or races, then what would you do, be a man hater?
All human beings are capable of abuse, whether physical or emotional, but restraint and reason, is what sets apart those who follow through from those who don't. Reevaluate your previous relationships, observe what you had contributed (even if it is as simple as passiveness) and then choose to do certain things differently and I hope you can get different results.

As children, it's our parents responsibilities to protect us from abuse, but as adults, it becomes our responsibilities. Sometimes it's more difficult for some of us, not being streetsmart or equipped to recognize the tools we need to use to protect ourselves, but experiences, lessons we've learnt from our experiences and always trusting the good instincts that have worked for and protected us previously, can help in preventing abuse from recurring.

There are a lot of decent Nigerian men, and abuse is definitely NOT a cultural thing. There is NOTHING in the Nigerian culture than encourages men to be abusive, controlling or disrespectful.
Peolpe regardless of race, nationality or ethnicity are a reflection of not only 'their upbringing', but also, 'how they have raised themselves'. Our parents raise us when we are minors, then it becomes our task to raise ourselves, hence why you sometimes see people raised in good homes acting like asses. Or people who are not in their home environment acting like they were never trained.

A Nigerian proverb says "there are those who who were born and not trained, yet their are those who were trained but did not accept the training".

I understand what everyone is saying, but I have never seen an example of a decent Nigerian man. I have not seen that in my father or with any of his brothers. So it goes beyond dating experiences. My father did not abandon me, but I would have preferred if I did not know him. My cousins all of which have American mothers were abandoned by their fathers (my fathers brothers) and even the Nigerians I see around them do not treat their wives well. My perceptions of Nigerian men are based soley on my personal experiences and the experiences of people around me, but that is the only way I can see the world. I also do not believe that by otehr people of other nationalities are "safe", but I'd much rather not deal with a Nigerian man. I know everyone on here is going to debate this with me. Which is cool because everyone has been respectful for the most part. But I cannot believe what I have never seen.

Remi,
I can definitely empathize with you and your experiences, and I will definitely not tell you to date Nigerian men, if you do not feel comfortable doing so, but don't let your negative experiences colour your total and future judgements.
Remember though that whoever you chose to date must be worthy of you, and that begins with you feeling, recognizing and knowing that you deserve better. You can only be a victim for as long as you choose to cooperate with those who abuse you, regardless of how.
Find the strength to increase your confidence level and love for yourself, and being strong does not mean becoming bitchty. Learn to defend yourself emotionally and psychologically, and this is very important especially considering what you've been exposed to growing up.
Personally, I find strength in the word of God and this may or may not help you, but I've learnt to be more assertive in life, increase my confidence and boldness in speaking up for myself through reliance on the word of God, and who God says I am. You are wonderfully made in the image of God and No one has the right to abuse you, but it begins with you NOT making yourself available for abuse.
Also, praying for God to bring you what you want, as well as for discernment in making your choices, rather than doing it within your strength can also be helpful.
Sometimes it takes being on a solo road to recognize one's value, rather than jumping from one meaningless relationship to another. Self-love (not egotism) is an important ingredient in recognizing one's worth and what one is willing to tolerate or NOT.

CXSM,
I definitely appreciate your comment. Although, I am not one to jump from relationship to relationship. I am single and plan to remain so for a long time. Being single has allowed me to do a lot of soul searching. As for confidence, I have maybe too much, I feel like I need to humble myself more. Although, no one is perfect I have to say my self esteem and my confidence is what scares a lot of men. Most men who know me regardless of nationality feel threatened by me because they claim I am "too independent." B I am a very assertive woman and I let everyone around me know that I will not be pushed around. Maybe you got the wrong impression of me from my postings. Although I have been hurt a lot in my life by Nigerian men, my father being the first, those experiences have only made me stronger as a person. But on the negative side, these experiences have also made distrust Nigerian men.

Your right, you can't beleive what you have never seen..I understand completly.
Since I dont' know ALL men, either Nigerian or whatever..I can't say they ALL are the same.
I use to think ALL men were the same, until I met my Nigerian guy...SHIT, honey..I didnt' know they made men like him..didn't believe they existed.
I can now say ALL men are NOT the same, there are a FEW good ones out there. I did say a FEW.

Repiles mainly to Bachelor and co!

Hi,
I'm a Nigerian lady based here in the US. I know your responses to the titled posting were from last year and may have changed, . I will still be putting on the notice board.

It might come as a shock to you, I must admit I’m one of the girls you were referring who has past her “expiration” date.
You see I am 31 year old, attractive well educated (I have got two degrees in engineering). I work for a big oil and gas company so I make a decent living, but haven’t been able to meet a decent young man to settle down with.
I spent most of my dating years (from 18 – 25) being picky and choosy and generally doing “shakara”(to us your own words), after 25 I decided to build my career and pumped all my energy into that, hence I didn’t make myself available to meet any young nice men. I’m 31 now and have been for the past 3yrs trying to meet someone. It’s been nearly impossible. I must say I am at a point were I think I will never meet anyone and have started trying to focus my energies into other positive directions. I know now that my chances of ever meeting anyone is down to about 30% (I mean think about it would be a miracle to meet and be accepted by the same “package of man” I would have met when I was 25 or there about), I turn 32 soon so that % would be going lower soon. I will not marry a recycled man (not because I have anything against them) because, I don’t think I'm quite there yet, maybe if I get more desperate, and I wouldn’t marry a guy 10years my senior (that’s a whole generation gap!!) as I would want some near to my age, so you see I have a problem here!!. But the key is not to get that desperate and that’s what I’m trying to do now. I have focused my energies on doing other things in my life e.g. volunteer work, with a cause I’m most passionate about and trying to get another degree. I know this will never fill the void a partner would, but then it gives a sense of fulfillment at least for the time being. Looking back I have made my mistakes and do have a few regrets, I have let a couple of good men go and realistically I don’t expect to ever get those chances again. So I join you brother and warn “ladies do not wait for it to be too late, if you meet a nice man go for it…boyfriends and husbands are measured on very different scales and different standards, they are definitely not the same thing”…

Thank you for the courage it must have taken to share the above, Berta. And welcome to NIA.

I just want to touch on a few points in this discussion.

I think a lot of people forgot about basic attraction. Regardless of where a man or woman is from, ethnicity or culture is not automatically the be and end all of your attraction to each other.

For Nigerian women based abroad, or even the ones in Nigeria, did you date EVERY single guy that asked you out while you were in Nigeria? no!!. You picked and chose back then just like you pick and choose now. The fact that a guy is Nigerian is not going to automatically attract me to him. It may make me notice him especially since I'm in the states and I want "my people" around me but that's about it. I may just choose to consider him first but that doesn't mean he won't go through the same examination process that other guys from other cultures will go through before I date/marry them. I think men in general have fragile egos that when a woman turns them down, they automatically assume she has a chip on her shoulder and is "playing hard to get" instead of just accepting her explanation of "sorry dude, I'm not attracted to you". The same way you guys pick whom you are going to ask out is the same way we pick who we are going to say yes to. And you can broadcast how smart, rich, nice and accomplished you are, we don't care. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Don't tell us how "worthy" you are, let us find out ourselves. Some of those things are not even included in some women's criteria for a good boyfriend/husband. You can't blame or judge them, they don't dictate your standards to you, don't dictate what their standards should be to them. If you are an extrovert and I prefer introverts, that is one less check mark you'd recieve, Nigerian or not. If I'm not attracted to short guys and you're short, guess what? ........ and on and on it goes.


Touching on a different side of this "hard to get" thing. We didn't learn that here, American women don't play hard to get. We leant it in Nigeria, and you guys went along with it too. Guys will chase you to the end of the earth when we were at home. We all know about the never ending crush when they will send their friends to talk to you or send you valentine's day cards and presents even though you roll your eyes and hiss whenever you see them. The crush that will last for years before the girl finally agrees to even smile at you. So you men should remember that before you start complaining. That shit was embedded in us in Nigeria and just like everything else, it is hard to shed now that we are abroad. Although I'll agree that women may take it a tad bit too far, i mean we are afterall adults but to set the record straight, playing hard to get was learnt in Nigeria.

And to those who said Nigerian women are subdued and Nigerian men are dominant, you don't know jack. Are you kidding? even if you don't know much about Nigeria, are you exposed to Nigerian through the media at all? Please tell me how many subdued women you've seen in comparison to the dominant ones. How many men go off and make important life decisions without consulting with their wives first? how many of them are physically abused? First of all, Nigerian men are more civilized than that, to take a stick and start beating their wives and girlfriends? The country may be poor but damn it doesn't mean we don't have common sense. Yes there are a few of them who do it just like there are a few American men who are abusive, they are every where regardless of race and culture. My mother was not subdued, my neighbor's mom was not subdued. My mom's friends were not subdued. They all let their husbands have it when they get out of line. And the husbands too were very respective of their wives' opinions. They all had jobs, be it 8-4 or a store at dugbe market. They were not lazy or weak or slaves. What you are mistaking for weak is just basic respect. When we are in public, we compose ourselves like dignified people. Husband and wife do not have a yelling match in public or in front of thier children, you wait till you get home to do that. We don't air our dirty laundry in public. If a husband is doing something wrong in public, the wife will snap her fingers and whisper to him "iwo sha je a dele", meaning "just wait till we get home".

And the reason why women are not so quick to divorce in Nigerian is not because they are stupid or money hungry or whatever off the cuff reasons you think. It's because divorce is the very last resort according to Nigerian culture. When you are going through marriage trouble, the first thing you think of is never divorce. We believe in the sanctity of marriage, "for better for worse", not "for better or until you start to get on my nerves". We were taught by our mothers and grandmothers that you stay and work it out, give it all you've got. No man/woman is perfect. Besides, you can't just abandon your children like that. Two incomes are better than one, being a single mother in a 3rd world country is not a walk in the park, you endure it, you bear it, jesus had a cross, this is your cross etc. So as a woman you think of all the reasons why you should stay as opposed to all the reasons why you should leave. My father never cheated and he was never abusive or arrogant or what not. I thought/think he was an ideal husband to my mom. But after 30 years of marriage, she now tells us he is not the perfect guy we think he is. He only seems perfect to us because of her and what she helped him become.

So people, remember what life was like where you came from before you start mouthing off here.

O she jare! or Thanks dear. (for the non-Naijas)

Originally posted by spinnelli
So people, remember what life was like where you came from before you start mouthing off here. Intersting contribution. If only you hadn't ended it with that last line. I don't see anyone mouthing off. People pitched there arguments from their perspective - and you cannot disagree with their perspective because it is unique to them.

Fine POV still.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by spinnelli
So people, remember what life was like where you came from before you start mouthing off here.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Intersting contribution. If only you hadn't ended it with that last line. I don't see anyone mouthing off. People pitched there arguments from their perspective - and you cannot disagree with their perspective because it is unique to them.

Fine POV still.


semantics Sola, no disrespect intended..

I'm mouthing off too:-)

Spinnelli, your message was HOT! Whew, my eyes are burning! Just kidding, I really liked what you said. Everybody knows I am an American woman and yes, women and men do play hard to get. I too have been guilty of this way before I got married...

Berta brought out some interesting points but I have to say, don't let desperation be your guide as you will never be happy. I'm 27 and I have a few female friends in their 30's and 40's who are not married. They all want to get married and are tired of playing games but they are willing to wait for the right man. If you just takes what comes along, you'll be wasting your time. You'll be married, unhappy, and trying to shape that man into something he will never become.

Spinnelli hit the nail on the head when she talked about not just picking a man because he is a Nigerian. Everyone that knew me years ago knew I was going to marry an African man. At the time I didn't care where he came from but hey, I lucked out! Don't let skin color, culture or tradition be your deciding factor. Also, don't go on the physical as well. Folks don't marry a lady JUST because she is pretty or a man because he is handsome. Someday the tables could turn and they could lose all of that. Just be careful.

To be honest with you all (the preacher in me is coming out now...), you should be asking a person if they belong to Christ. That should be your only question besides a few others. Also, for folks here wanting a mate, have you stayed in prayer about this? PUSH...Pray Until Something Happens

MrsKenna Wrote: "To be honest with you all (the preacher in me is coming out now...), you should be asking a person if they belong to Christ. That should be your only question besides a few others. "

MrsK, I gotta disagree with you there. There are many people who belong to Christ, but are of totally unreformed character. Believe me, I know what I am talking about. Heck, I have met Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims etc who have much better character and morals, than many of our christian sisters. However, as the Holy Bible says, do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. That's the only reason why personally, I won't go there.


Regards

"Berta brought out some interesting points but I have to say, don't let desperation be your guide as you will never be happy."

Thanks MrsKenna! Point of note though...

1) I dont think i have come to the point yet where i'd let desperation be my guide.

2) My contribution was purely "matter of fact" and must not be taken otherwise..

3)I still dont think theres anything wrong with admitting my preferences for Nigerian men, you always thought you where going to end up with an African and you did, well i have always thought i'd end up with a Nigerian and i probably will. i dont imagine i'm "shortening or boxing my horizons" in anyway, i'm just deciding what i want and think will make me happy, like you did, and going for it!

4) your advice on prayer is much appreciated..Thanks!

Regs....

Spinelli your contributions were very good and i must agree, says it all!!! Goodone mate!

one more thing MrsKenna, no offence and i hope non taken, but i really dont think you "get" where i'm coming from...

Hey Gen Sani Abacha, I can respect your thought. You can go there! I won't bite! Ha ha, as a Christian, I could never end up marrying a man that did not serve my God. It just wouldn't work for me. Maybe for others but not in my house! As far as Christian behaviors, perhaps those people you know need to repent and change from their evil ways. Please don't get me to preachin up in here!!! I am trying to go to lunch soon!!!:D

Berta, I probably don't get it but I will reread it and try to understand again!

Out to lunch yall!

MrsK

Mrs Mckenna, preach on preacher paulie:-)

Thanks Spinnelli, I'll try to limit my preaching!! Ha ha!! Just kidding!

Hi All,

I just got back from Nigeria. I am very busy at the moment trying to catch up on work and paying overdue bills and I'm already planning another trip for Dec or the summer.

Of course one of my main objectives was to try and meet a woman who would be my wife. I am happy to say I did. Unless something goes drastically wrong I should be engaged by Dec 2004 and married by Easter of 2005.

I'll try not to go into a long treatise. Here is what I learned in the past 2 or 3 yrs about the relationship between men and women.

Most men and women (the exceptions are very few) have the same motivation in life: self preservation. The ways they go about achieving that end and the importance attached to it vary according to their present status and the environment in which they find themselves.

Self preservation is two fold

1. Economic - The accumulation or availability of wealth assures comfort, especially in old age.
2. Biological: Mating with someone beautiful or handsome ensures that our offspring have a greater chance of being chosen as mates and thus preserving our genes in future generations.

Applying this to the Nigerian community one can immediately discern these motives at work. It also applies to other cultures, but I'll assume we are more interested in "Why Do Nigerians Go Home To Marry"

Most persons in the USA (including Nigerians) have access to the basic comforts of life. In such a situation, it is not surprising that wealth has lost much of its value as yardstick to choose mates. You have to be VERY wealthy in the USA for your wealth to be an attraction for the opposite sex. This explains why most ppl living in the USA place a very high value on beauty.......and "intangible" and very subjective qualities, such as "sensitivity".

Most persons in Nigeria are poor, and as such place a very high value on economic security and choose their mates accordingly.

There are many nuances to this scenario. Age plays some part. When you are young approximately 18-25, you are at your most goodlooking and your expectations for future earnings may be exaggerated, thus the tendency to be picky.

In the teen yrs you are mostly ruled by your hormones and considerations of wealth are just not in the picture; most teens don't even know what earning money means.

I am kinda overworked and harried right now so I can't write much more. My writing is probably a little incoherent. But I trust you get my gist. Everyone acts according to their own particular advantages and disadvantages in the game of life. The trick is to maximize each advantage b4 you loose it.

More later.


Bachelor.

hey Bachelor welcome back, you lucky devil:-) damn.... I want to go home so bad, I could just taste that suya right this second..but I digress.

Please, if you don't mind me asking, Why the wait to get engaged? so you can get to know each other better?

What in the world ever happened to love? Seems like people are basing marriages on "economics". Thank God I did not base my marriage on this. Money is important but it is not everything....despite what the society has taught us.....

Before I got married, a "well to do" Zimbabwean man asked me to marry him. This guy was well off financially as he had his own business, a bit of money, etc...but I did not love him. Granted he had the finances but if I married him for money, wouldn't that make me a GOLD DIGGER? Instead, I picked my humble Nigerian. I love him and couldn't even imagine being with anyone else. The Zimbabwean guy was nice but I bet we would be headed for divorce by now due to the lack of love.

I am curious to know what this world is coming to if we are picking people based on their wealth and looks???

Bachelor:Congratulations on your engagement...don't wait too long..from the moment I met my husband till we were married was about 3 and a half months!!

Spinnelli,

Thanks. I'm planning on returning to Nigeria for a very long stay (3-4 months) sometime after May, depending on her school schedule. We are not engaged, but I made it very clear that she is the one for me. She feels the same.

Ms K,

You asked:
I am curious to know what this world is coming to if we are picking people based on their wealth and looks???

Hmmmm. Was there ever a time when looks and wealth were not factors in choosing mates? I don't know why ppl choose to be so afraid of obvious truths. If you live in the USA or you are a rich Nigerian, you have basic economic security, so you can afford to ignore money as a factor in choosing a mate and put more emphasis on looks, love or whatever else catches your fancy. ;)

Truth is that marriage and family are support structures. If you live in an economy like the USA, you can decide to forgo marriage and the compromises it entails, especially when you are young, healthy and able to earn enough to live in comfort. It is no accident that the USA and other Western nations have a higher rate of divorce and single motherhood than Nigeria, and also a higher incidence of ppl who choose to remain childless by choice. In Nigeria children support their parents in their old age. In the USA, UK and Italy, you get social security checks. We can pretend all we want, but we are all very selfish. It is our nature.

If you are a young Nigerian, especially one living in Nigeria, you are forced to put economic security at the top of your agenda. This isn't some intellectual issue to be ruminated over while you sip champagne and nibble at caviar in your favorite restaurant, its a matter of life and death. Take for instance, childbirth. It is more dangerous for a woman to undergo childbirth in Nigeria.
So what is wrong with choosing a mate who can take you to a place where it is safer to have children?

All,

My advice to Nigerian men in the USA (especially if you are just an average looking working man) is to seriously consider going to Nigeria to find a woman to marry, that is if you WANT to marry - its not for everybody. Ask trusted relatives to look around for you, listen to your parents. Ask your old high school teachers (trust me on that one!) Stick to women whose parents have maintained an intact marriage. Avoid women from households that have maids or servants of any kind. This next one is debatable, but avoid rich, urban families who haven't maintained ties to their rural hometowns and villages and whose children only speak English and not their native language. In my experience, they basically have the same mindset as any woman in the USA, which is that they have it all - and don't need to compromise. Which by the way is very true.

On your part, don't deceive, don't lie, don't paint a picture that isn't true. I can't say this enough. Talk up the hard parts of life here. Very few women there will have the guts to ask you what you do for a living, so you have to be upfront. Be humble. BE NIGERIAN. Speak your native language; this will help you to alienate those (men and women) who think living in the USA is like a BET music video.

There are tons of women looking for men in Nigeria. I visited 2 university campuses, it will bring tears to your eyes to see the beauty, humility, sheer goodness that is just waiting for you. For those fed up enough to make the sacrifice, Nigeria is the way to go.

Bachelor.

I respect your words but do not agree. I am not Nigerian but I am married a Nigerian man. I married my husband because he is a Godly man not based on his wealth because he did not come from a family with money. My husband is a student and he works hard to pay for his schooling and his books. As for me, I am a woman that is unlike any other woman out there. I do not need to look for a "trophy" husband to complete me.

As far as "obvious truths", I don't believe it is ok for people to judge others for what they can get. It's about what you can contribute to the relationship not about just taking!!! :D


I have been told many times that I think differently than most people. Good for me cause it makes me unique. My spiritual gift is the gift of being non-judgmental, seeing people for who they are and all they're capable of being not what they can financially do for me. When I met my husband, he was making a low salary doing some odd job. That did not deter me from him at all. I saw that he was a humble man, he loved God and he respected me. I saw the great potential that he is becoming at this very moment.

By the way, my parents have been married for over 30 years. My husband's parents divorced when he was a teenager. Just because someone's parents are divorced/not married does not mean their marriage will fail also....

I do admire your honesty and the words of others to express their opinions here. Fortunately, I am a bit different from the average woman. I thinkand act differently which that distinguishes me!

I am excited that you have met someone that you will be happy with. Please let us know when you get engaged!

Sincerely,

MrsKenna

:guffaw

i do agree with Bachelor about the economic situations in Nigeria forcing women to seek out a man that is financially comfortable and can contribute to the upkeep of the household. Although it may be politically incorrect or even appalling to those of us abroad but it IS the reality in Nigeria, and as ugly as it is, we still have to talk about it.

I think this notion is rooted in the ancient custom of chilvary, i.e., the man goes out to "bring home the bacon", while the woman stays home and takes care of the children. I have never heard of a Nigerian household that shares the financial burden 50/50 between husband and wife. People, correct me if I'm wrong, but the husband usually contributes more than the wife. My mother had a government job, she got a paycheck but a good chunk of it remained "her money" while my father's paycheck was "our money". There were many instances that my father would tell us to "borrow" money from my mom for something we needed and he payed her back. It was/still is an unspoken rule that the man takes care of his woman and the children. You can very well try to be the "independent" woman and protest this, but be sure that your Nigerian husband WILL put up a fight when it becomes a habit.
I also think that women seeking to marry financially comfortable men think more of their children more than anything else. You often hear, "I want a man that can take care of my kids". If she's at home sweeping the floor and doing the dishes, you can't blame her for wanting a man that will go out there to make some money.

May I ask if you've ever been to Nigeria Mrs. McKenna? if so, what were your experiences?

Also, a person's choice of a mate is usually not ONLY based on wealth and looks, it is a combination of several factors, some of them more important than others. There is looks, wealth, education, lifestyle, intelligence, character, habits, and so many other things to consider. It is a cummulation of these factors that results in ATTRACTION. For some people , looks is #1, followed by lifestyle,followed by personality. Other people reschuffle things as they see fit.

Mrs. Mckenna, I admire you for basing your choices solely on "love", but have you ever thought that maybe we love people as a result of who they are,what they are about and what they are aiming to be?. Why do you love your husband? You said because he is a Godly man but I bet you if he was a Godly man with no education, no job and no ambition, you would have hesitated to marry him. Sometimes, it is not necessarily what the man has right now but his potential, that we find attractive. Why is he going to school? To become somebody right? Somebody who will bring home a nice paycheck someday. So in a roundabout way, economic status IS part of your criteria for choosing him. Albeit at the bottom of your list and not as blatant as other women we see out there.

All in all I will say, choose your choice people, live with it and be able to defend it in the face of criticism. And for the rest of us, we have to live and let live o jare.

All the guys that want to go to Nigeria to marry, knock yourself out, but contrary to what Bachelor said, you should probably wait to get to know these girls before judging them because unfortunately, good people don't always come in a nice, neatly wrapped package. A lot of good people come from not so good households. And don't be so quick to lump all Nigerian girls abroad into one category either. Approach each situation objectively and you just may be suprised at what you find.

Good point Spinelli. I will respond after lunch..by the way, why are you calling me McKenna...My first name is Kenna not McKenna!! Ha ha, I feel like McDonald's when you write that! Anyway, I will respond later today.

sorry, you stare at the computer all day, you start to see double. MRS KENNA!! got it!

No problem Spinnelli, these things happen sometimes!!! Now on to the discussion at hand!

At this point in my life, I am the breadwinner for my family. My husband is concentrating on school at this point. By the way, I fell in love with him before I had even met him. We met over the phone through a mutual friend....long story..I won't get into that. He could have been an ugly duckling and it wouldn't have matter. I guess I am like this because I don't want people judging me based on my outer appearances! Now when the tables flip and he is the breadwinner, I can then stay home and eat ice cream all day..just kidding!!

As far as my husband being of Christ, he is...by the way, I didn't want a dumb man. The man I married had to have some type of drive and ambition about himself, else I would have been one bored lady.

I have never been to Nigeria. We are planning to go there next year. I can only imagine the experiences that will happen to me while I am there....

In a sense, you are right about loving someone for who they are and what they will become. I can respect that! I am a bit older than my husband so he needs that extra time to get to his potential!

I am signing off now!

I know this works in many instances, whatever some believe here about Nigerian men going home to find a wife.

I wonder if the same can be made to work for Nigerian ladies? I mean successful single ladies here going home to get a man to marry... Yeah, the social stigma of "dat man, na him wife come marry am" will never make it work. We probably will end up thinking the woman wears the sokoto in the marriage.

Sola, I think that would work as soon as women stop waiting to get chosen by men. I mean come on, you are marrying this man, it is a joint venture, a partnership. Why do we treat it like a "boss/employee" relationship? Why do women have to wait to be asked? Why do we have to wait for a man to tell us we are worthy to get married to? It reminds me of grade school where the teacher asks a question and kids are screaming " ooh, ooh, pick me, pick me".

You are correct about the social stigma hindering women. The sooner we modify our thought processes, the better it'll be for everyone. What is the rationale behind waiting for a man to ask your hand in marriage? why can't you do the asking?. It sickens me to hear women in long-term relationships whining that their boyfriend won't marry them or refuses to talk about marriage, "ooh I don't want to bring it up because I don't want to scare him away", .....no seriously.

This is not some feminazi independent woman propangada, it is just common sense. If you are going to spend the rest of your life with someone, shouldn't you have as much say in how that is going to happen?

As for me o, when my time comes and I want to marry a man, if he doesn't ask, I'll ask. If he says no, I'll carry my load and comot. Life is really not as complicated as we make it to be sometimes.

@Batchelor, congrats o, we go wash am !!!

@MrsK, your story sounds like a fairy tale, my ears are tuned in like satellite dishes to hear the juicy details :D , who says men don't do goss eh ;) ?

@Spinelli for woman to come ask me, mek I marry am ?

Eewo !! Abomination !! My Papa, Im Papa, Im Papa Papa, na all of dem ask dem Yawo to marry dem. Me too, I go ask my yown to marry me. I be true son of my papa, and tru son of di soil. All dis foreign Oyinbo jagbajantis, no dey my dico rara at all at all. :D :D :D

@MrsK again

Girl, I know what I'm talking about re: behaviour of some of our christian sisters, and brothers too I might add. In A LOT of churches nowadays, there are rampant levels of fornication, adultery etc. I even joked to a friend once, when I implied that a brothel probably held more decent women than some churches!!!! :eeek

Mi done.

Hey Gen Sani Abacha, you know me..my life is a fairytale to some. Maybe I should write a book on my experiences one day?

As far as Christian folks, what can I say. Sometimes people don't act right but all I can do is pray that they will!!!:D

yeah yeah General Sani Abacha, na una sabi. I'm assuming if your papa and im papa carry themselves go jump inside river Niger, you go follow too right?

eh, anu mi se e. irukiru obe wo..shio


oh and by the way, oyinbo women sit and wait for the man to come claim them too so I think this statement, 'All dis foreign Oyinbo jagbajantis, no dey my dico rara at all at all' is moot.

Originally posted by spinnelli
yeah yeah General Sani Abacha, na una sabi. I'm assuming if your papa and im papa carry themselves go jump inside river Niger, you go follow too right?

eh, anu mi se e. irukiru obe wo..shio


oh and by the way, oyinbo women sit and wait for the man to come claim them too so I think this statement, 'All dis foreign Oyinbo jagbajantis, no dey my dico rara at all at all' is moot.

spinnelli, na ur papa and im papa go carry themselves jump inside river Niger. :D :D :D

Anu ara e ni ko se e.


Some sections of the Oyinbo female popn do go out of their way to propose. Why do you think a lot of them do it on Valentine's day ? In fact it's almost a tradition among some folks, here in the UK.

well you ever think that maybe those oyinbo people are just taking charge of their lives? as opossed to following the crowd, i.e, "my papa and im papa"?.

anyway I see your point, only I don't agree. So let's take the mature route and agree to disagree on this matter huh?

Umm, since I don't speak the native tongue, can someone tell me what "oyinbo" people are?

spinelli my naija sista, I got nuttin' but love for ya. Sure, we can agree to disagree. I consider myself moderately traditional, and if some folks see that as crowd following, that's their opinion and they are entitled to it. :D :D :D

MrsK, "Oyinbo" means white folks in both Yoruba and Igbo. In Hausa it is "Bature". Ghanaians call em "Oburoni", Zims (Zimbabweans) call 'em "Wazungu".

outtie

Happy new year to everyone!
It's been a while.

My hearty congratulations to Bachelor, it's at times like this that I do believe truly and completely that it is indeed a man's world.
Imagine going home to pick a fresh cutie still in school!!!

Spinelli, I agree with you about women asking. WHy not?? But will it work? I have 2 friends who live in UK, doing very well, making good money, and they both went home to look for husbands. Ofcourse they were labeled "frustrated jands chicks", so whether we like it or not, society, naija society in particular will always attach a stigma to it.

I mean pple still have a problem accepting a relationship where the woman is older than her husband back home. So imagine if he goes home and tells his parents that she proposed to him.
Gen. Abacha's reaction is small fry to how some would react if that happened.
Maybe we can get them to ask in a roundabout way.
No disrespect to men, but you know sometimes you need to lead a man to the stream, before he realizes he's thirsty.
Most men are like babies,
hang in there long enuff, or do the right thing at the right time and he will be bugging you to tie the knot asap.
When you have time, we should get together and I'll trade you some age old secrets,
:D

Mrs K, if u dont' mind my asking, how much older are you than your husband?? And I hope you enjoy your trip to NIgeria, when you do visit.

Been a while Sisieko. :)

Hi Sisieko, I am not that much older but I am about 5 years older...ha ha, I'm a cradle robber!! He did get teased from his folks back home. Guess they thought I was some dried up prune or something??? Hee hee!!:D

Yesterday I went to our office Christmas party with a “friend”. The point of this whole story had nothing to do with the “friend”, its more to do with my general feelings from, the during the party up to this very moment….
You see I have been without a partner for the past five years, work has moved me around a lot (I have lived in 4 countries in 3 different continents, and once managed to live in three different countries in one year alone (2002)…. please don’t ask me how I managed that feat…. because even I, can’t tell you.) and I like to think that’s the reason why I have probably not settled down with someone yet. I must add at this point that I have met quite a few nice guys; some I didn’t, at that time think were good enough and hence thought were not worth my while and others I stupidly “let go”.
Allow me add for your general knowledge that, I consider myself attractive, smart and (believe or not) easy going. Well back to the story…
I went for my office party with this “friend” and men! The reaction “we” got was very how should I put it…”sparking” (don’t start asking me why I chose that word (adjective) because I cant answer it…it just seem to suit the whole scenario that ensued).
Everyone was falling over himself or herself to meet, talk to us. The company president’s wife pulled me to a corner to tell me I had “a hunk of a boyfriend” and “hinted that he was definitely a “keeper”. When she finally got us together she kept insisting that we should get married and that she would plan our wedding (she a wedding planner as well, apart from generally spending her husband’s cash). She wanted to know if and when we were going to have babies and just kept gushing at what a lovely couple we made. My company president dashed over to chat as well (finally he noticed me, and sadly not because of my work but because I was part of this charming couple!!??!?!?).
As for me, I was dying of “nerves”(because he wasn’t really my boyfriend, but no one was listening), “jitters”(because I was thinking of the next office “do” when I don’t show up with him), “stutters” (because I thinking of all the explaining I would do when I drag another “poor” friend (who may not be quite as cool) to the next office “do”) and any other trait of shock (because I really was shocked, I really didn’t expect everyone’s reaction). Seriously people, I thought the best I would get was dinner and my complimentary handshake from the company ogas’(bosses), I didn’t expect any of these. The guy is/was not my boyfriend “ I have never had sexual relations with that man!!” Believe me I tried to explain he wasn’t my boyfriend, but nobody was listening or wanted to listen.
As for the guy he carried it so well, he held my hand at the right time, looked into my eyes appropriately and shared private jokes (Which I didn’t even know we had) with me accordingly. If I didn’t know any better I’d say he was loving every moment of it.
When I finally relaxed, I followed his lead; I blushed and glowed accordingly. I laughed and took his hands comfortably when he stretched it out. It was like we had history (which I swear again I didn’t even know about!). We are not even a couple!!
I must add as a consolation to me that my “coolness level” in the company has definitely gone to “ultracool” (come-on guys! I’m not about to admit that I didn’t have it somewhere in the company before this party).
Now to the scary bit, “I enjoyed it all”” so much I didn’t want it to end…. 24 hours later “I still don’t want it to end”. Ofcos after the party, infact in the elevator, we went back to our very normal self…but it has left me “very very goooey and mushy” on my insides. I wish we could go back to yesterday. Wish I could turn back the hands of time.
Lesson: So this is what it feels like being part of a couple?
Gotta to run guys! I’m off to see a movie all by myself (getting very usual these days). I don’t want to late. Your comments/questions will be appreciated.
B.
p.s. to that gang (Uncle Sola, please do something) I find this whole forum a bit cliquey. I mean “certain people only reply to certain people’s post”. Don’t think me pathetic, but a reply to my post by the “regular gang” would be nice.
And finally don’t ask me what the story has to do with the original thread topic, I just thot it would be nice to share!!
layta

I know exactly what you are talking about Bertha.
A colleague of mine, just came in from NY, and he doesnt' speak french, etc, so I'm his unofficial guide around town, if you like.
We went to church together yesterday and someone asked me in his hearing if he was "Mr. Right" - very embarassing.
But on to your friend
have you spoken to him since then?
Did he think it was an interesting evening, did he remotely imply, (even jokingly) that you guys should go out, since your colleagues are playing cupid??
Remember, many a truer words have been spoken in jest.
Does he have a girlfriend that you know off??
You should explore his avenue more, why not???
If his body language is right, then go for it,
meanwhile as an aside, how come your company is having an xmas party at the end of january?????

I know exactly what you are talking about Bertha.
A colleague of mine, just came in from NY, and he doesnt' speak french, etc, so I'm his unofficial guide around town, if you like.
We went to church together yesterday and someone asked me in his hearing if he was "Mr. Right" - very embarassing.
But on to your friend

have you spoken to him since then? Yes, I speak to him about three times a day. We are very close. I have known him for 15 yrs. His sister is my bestfriend and our families intermingle a lot.

Did he think it was an interesting evening? Yes he said he very much enjoyed himself and was looking forward to our next outing, infact he wants us to hook up with some of my workmates for movie and a meal (Hey more couple moments). Sisieko, you know how oyinbos are? Any man they see you the especially at occasion such as the fore mentioned they just assume there must be “something”. Its like they were willing for it to happen.

Did he remotely imply, (even jokingly) that you guys should go out, since your colleagues are playing cupid?? Sadly, no he didn’t’. I wish he did though. I have known him for so long, that nite just opened my eyes to what a “hunk” he really was. But I’m not going to push it, as I don’t want to mess up a good friendship.

Remember, many a truer words have been spoken in jest.
Does he have a girlfriend that you know off?? No he doesn’t have a girlfriend I know of, thank God!

You should explore his avenue more, why not???
If his body language is right, then go for it,Well i could read his body all day, if he wants! (haaha)

meanwhile as an aside, how come your company is having an xmas party at the end of january?????

Men! that’s my company for you, they should have had this party in decermber, infact its not usually called xmas anymore, it called “employee appreciation dinner”,

The good thing in all of this is I’m now on first name bases with my ogas (bosses) wifes and my bosses are just so happy to see me (at least this morning!), they insist I must keep in touch via email at least and get together to do “something”. Men! see what having a “better half” can do for your social/career standing. It’s so weird. I have never had this kind of treatment before. i'll just sit back and enjoy

Hiya Bertha,
Well if ur friend (i take it he's nigerian?) thinks you should hang out with your colleagues again, maybe it's not such a bad idea.
You should oblige him and yourself (i bet!)by going out, with other "couples", see how things go from there.
I mean that way u're not saying I want you but you are creating a somewhat "i want u" kinda atmosphere, if u get what I mean.
Strange though that he thought it was funny, I mean strange in that he didn't pursue bcos whether you've known each other since u were in diapers he's still a man, as long as he's not your blood brother, or cousin then he's still accessible.
Maybe he sees u as more of a sister, since your families are so close.
You should try some womanly things in front of him, depends on what kinda man he is,
find out what he likes quite playfully and skillfully in a woman, create the atmosphere and when you go out with your work colleagues, plan it around somethign he likes to do.
Say he likes bowling for instance, then go bowling with colleagues who like d same or convince them that it'll be a novelty outing or something.


Did he think it was an interesting evening?

Yes he said he very much enjoyed himself and was looking forward to our next outing, infact he wants us to hook up with some of my workmates for movie and a meal (Hey more couple moments).
YOu should playfully point out to him that if you guys go out with your colleagues again, then they'd really decide you're a couple, and that might not be good for you, for when you do meet someone, see how he takes that.
Remember we're trying to find out if he at least sees you as a potential girlfriend.



Sadly, no he didn’t’. I wish he did though. I have known him for so long, that nite just opened my eyes to what a “hunk” he really was. But I’m not going to push it, as I don’t want to mess up a good friendship.
I believe in fate, you didn't choose him mistakenly to go with you for your "xmas" party, it was meant to be.
I don't know what your plans are, if u guys have known each other for long, maybe you should spend even more time in his company, be his friend, confidante, etc, and quite deliberately (if u're brave enuff)kiss him one day, that's not messing upa good relationship, if he's matured, he can back down and say "No bertha i respect u too much" or he can give yu a nice long french kiss, and come up for air long enuff to ask you "what took u so long?"
Like I said before read his body language around you,
especially after the party night, that should tell u something.
Is he more endearing than he usually is?
Calling you more?
Does he refer to that night often?
Look for the signs girl!!!!!



ANd i do agree with you, make sure you enjoy it all d way girlfriend.
At least he's bringing you some respect without even being your bobo!!! what a guy!

.

Hear Hear Amerbro,

My man you should be in counselling or an agony uncle !!! :D :D :D

Berta I hope it all works out for you and this bobo. Since you've known each other for so long, I bet you are used to each other's ways, habits, foibles etc. So gurrrl, go get ya groove on, let da music play on and on. Love is in the air. Sisi Eko, let's know how it goes up your end too. :D I swear as soon as I hook my oriental princess, I'll drop the 411 for all yall out here.


ciao

Ooh Berta, that guy sounds like a load of fun. Sounds like you were really feeling his vibe. Perhaps you should try to pursue it very slowly and see how it goes. I hope he's not one of those guys that just wants to be friends. Is he in your age category? Could you take him home to your parents? Just wondering..don't let your big fish get away because another fisher will come scoop him on up!

I know your day is coming soon.....

Yes i will definitely keep looking out for the signs. Actually i think he likes me. The other day i tried hooking him up with one of my friends and he kept asking me why i didn't try to hook him up with myself, i just laughed cos i thot he was joking around, he does that alot. Somtimes, i think he still sees me as hes little sister's friend. its all good!
He 34/35 years old (perfect age for me, i believe), with very defined career plans. which really does it for me. i know he will make a good kisser, i can just tell (NOTE: THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT, A GIRL SHOULD NEVER COMPROMISE THIS ASPECT, ITS ALL IN HIS KISS!).
The main problem is that he travels alot, Japan today, paris tomorrow. So i have never really had a chance to take a good look at him. Well we'll see! fingers crossed! But in the meantime i'll just enjoy!

Guys, I dont think my wanting to be with man affects my sense of self-worth in anyway. i'm honest enough to admit that i'm at point in my life where i want to be with someone. SUBTEXT: I HAVEN"T BEEN WITH A MAN/RELATIONSHIP IN FIVE YEARS. come-on guys i don try!
I will of cousre not let it cramp my style, what is life without these littel spices!!??
layta mates!

This is an education for many stopping by here to read this threads.

Hey, what's up. While I've been away, Bachelor's got hitched, we've got new members, etc etc.

Welcome Berta and Spinnelli !

Who says you ladies can't go and pick yourself a husband too? Free your minds, ladies........if that's what you want.

A cautionary note, bachelor, I don't mean to diss your baby but the problem is once you're visiting from abroad and she knows marriage is on the cards, it can change the whole perspective.

Trust me I know what my classmates in University in nigeria got up to when "american" husbands came calling. which is not to say there weren't genuine ones whose marriages have lasted. a few did crash spectacularly though, after they'd been ferried to the US and showed their "True colours"

Hey, but my bro, your own no go be dat kin one ! Amin

This is an education for many stopping by here to read this threads. i surely am getting an education here, i couldn't help but read right from the beginning to the end. i can say a nigerian spouse is first choice for 90% of contributors, ife3 wants us to broaden our horizons, bachelor sees marriage as trade, blackqueen has seen the light, sola you're the man, abacha na wa! typical naija. i like the way its ending though

Yes, Blackqueen is my girl! We've both seen the light!

In the words of Sean Paul "Just Gimme the Light"

yeah yeah!

O se o jare Mysteryman, let the sisters sit there and wait for some man to come tell them they are "worthy". Olorun ma je, I rebuke it in Jesus name:-). I mean this is your life, this is the one and only life that you have, why oh why would you let other people control it for you? Why do women who want to be married choose to remain unmmarried because a man didn't come to ask their hand in marriage? Why not ask him yourself instead of sitting there crying, "woe is me, nobody wants me".

I'm not trying to emasculate any man or what he thinks his duties are, but if my biological clock is ticking and you're dragging your feet, bro, I go take matters in my own hands, ta lo raye iranu?.


trust me I know what my classmates in University in Nigeria got up to when "american" husbands came calling

This is based on the sad misconception that we in third world countries have about overseas countries. We never learn reality until we get here.

Whew, Spinnelli, that was deep...real deep. I have once proposed to a man when I was 19 years old. He said yes but we never got married though...long story :-)

I think woman should stand up and go for what is theirs. If he won't ask, then you ask. If he says no, then go on about your life!

this is a mail i got sometime ago, i'll like to share
1. The nice men are ugly.
2. The handsome men are not nice. >
3. The handsome and nice men are gay.
4. The handsome, nice and heterosexual men are married. >
5. The men who are not so handsome, but are nice men, have no
money. >
6. The men who are not so handsome, but are nice men with money think we are only after their money. >
7. The handsome men without money are after our money. >
8. The handsome men, who are not so nice and somewhat
heterosexual, don't think we are beautiful enough. >
9. The men who think we are beautiful, that are heterosexual,
somewhat nice and have money, are cowards. >
10. The men who are somewhat handsome, somewhat nice and have some money and thank God are heterosexual, are shy and NEVER MAKE THE
FIRSTMOVE!!!! >
11. The men who never make the first move, automatically lose
interest in us when we take the initiative.
NOW ....WHO THE HELL UNDERSTANDS MEN??
Men are like a fine wine. They all start out like grapes, and
it's a woman's job to stomp on them and keep them in the dark until they mature into something you'd like to have dinner with....

it's true now Mrs Kenna. We shouldn't apply this cookie cutter mentality to love and relationships the way we do...boy meets girl, boy asks girl out, boy pays for EVERY date, boy tells girl FIRST that he loves her, boy proposes to girl, blah blah blah. And the whole time, girl just sits there like the Cinderella she is waiting for Prince Charming to come rescue her. Only in some cases, girl ends up waiting forever. Shit, I can be Princess Charming too, I can rescue a man too, or how about we rescue each other huh? Lord knows if I was a man, I certainly wouldn't go for the reserved girl that'll leave me to do ALL the work. Speak up, do something, a b'ode ni e ni?

Don't be timid with love, it's hard enough to find. The last thing you want to do is take it for granted when you do find it.

On another note, ..this is for Bachelor and others who go home to pick wives. Is it important to get to know them first before marrying them? if so, what is the cut off? 2 months, 3 months? Is that enough time to get to know someone you will be spending the rest of your life with? in the same house? OR do you just resign yourself to getting to know them after you're married?

I'm only playing devil's advocate here because in some ways, I think people are constantly changing and you can never really claim to know someone. What do you guys think?

Excellent point Spinnelli. I only knew my husband for 3 1/2 months before we got married and I lived in California and he lived in New York. Technically, we knew a lot about each other "through talking" but I didn't really know what kind of person he was until I married him and we started living together here in California. I think some men and women are so thrilled by the opportunity to get married that they just jump at the first young thing that flies up. There's more to it than just sweet roses everyday! Lord, if the walls could talk!!!

Mind you, my husband and I have had to make a lot of sacrifices and compromising to keep each other happy! It says a lot to me for someone to go to a particular location just to find a wife/husband. My husband told me a story of a Naija man here that went to Nigeria to find a wife. I asked him how was he going to be able to do that in just two weeks. My husband told me that the man was going to test a few ladies out...meaning sex. Now, how in the hell are you going to know if a woman is your wife based on sex??? I have no idea and I hope that the men that are going to Nigeria are not using that "tool" as a means to pick a wife. If this is all you are looking for, then go get yourself a prostitute. Base it on a person's qualities i.e. their intelligence, their ambition, their drive not the object between their legs.

As usual, I always drift off the subject. I apologize and I will try to stay focused. Anyway, be that Princess/Prince Charming!!

By the way, like Spinnelli said, people change all the time..be mindful of that.


I'm at a loss for words now...Sola knows that's weird for me!

Hey Girls,

"Ask a man to marry me", that is bold! But what's the worse that could happen? He says NO. But then you already know it was the worse that could happen anyway, so its not that bad in the end.

I must be very sincere ( and please dont think me naive or unexposed), i do have a have problem with asking a man to marry me or even date me. its something i have never done before. its something i dont even know if i could do at all. may be i'm a bit too traditional (ok maybe this is also the reason i haven't dated anyone for the past 5 years) or maybe i haven't met anyone that would make me take the leap. But that is not say that theres anything wrong with it. its very bold and liberating! and if you meet a man who doesn't have such hang-ups then go all the way for it.

layta chucks!
B.

i like to be wined and dined. And moreover i thot men liked taking care of a woman (isn't that what they are supposed to do best, i mean they are bad at nearlyevery thing else!)

Call me old fashioned, but i still view men as the aggressor and seriously hope that doesn't change very much. i like my man to be a "man". rescue me please!
i know that men and women are equal but are definitely not the same! That is why my mom encourages my brothers pay for the girls they go with and never never go dutch!

Come-on girls men and women are definitely not the same!

B.

Hello everyone..
I think I am going to have to disagree with a couple of folks here, still love ya though:D

I don't think a woman should ask a man out, and definetly NOT ask a man to marry her. Why?? I know some of you are going to jump on me for this one...but I will say it anyway.

Why?? First of all no matter how we feel about a clock ticking or whatever it might be, its not a woman's place to approach a man in the matter of love to ask for marriage, Because God intended for MEN to be the leaders...leaders in the world, home, marriage.
Now believe me I am all for a woman coming out of her shell or whateve we would like to call it, but in some cases LADIES we are to take a back seat...and this has nothing to do with us being treated unfairly. I am ALL for women to be respected. BELIEVE THAT, But LADIES if we want our marriages to to be built on a solid foundation...I say let the man lead...even if he messes up, its ok....he has to learn...by letting him feel as though he in control , it makes him feel RESPECTED...and believe me RESPECT is what men are looking for more than anything (besides SEX) and some others.

When you ask a man out for a date, or for marriage..yeah, he may not object to it..but believe me he wants TO BE THE CHASER AND HE APPROACHER....

I could write a book on this subject..because I strongly feel this is the right way.

Believe me, the TAKING THE LEAD THING, will go all the way into the relationship and cause OTHER PROBLEMS....BELIEVE ME...

HE may enjoy it at first, you "taking control" it may even be a turn on...but the "taking control" will lead to you wanting to TAKE CONTROL over him, and everything else...which will lead to all sorts of complications, even divorce...
Just trust me on this one, I would't lead you astray. :D


ONE LOVE...

Hear Hear Blackqueen! i couldn't have put it better myself.
Enough with this "women lib's crap". Somethings are just meant to a certain way and is best left unchanged.
But then again, its not all in balck and white. Each suitaution must be viewed and treated differently.
Ta

MRS K...
WHERE YOU AT...WHERE YOU BE GIRL...
:devil :D :guffaw

I GOTS TO EMAIL YA......

oh Berta, trust me I know it's a bold move. That is because it is not what we've been socialized into. We are not used to it. But that doesn't mean we can't begin to change our point of view...IF WE WANT TO.

Why don't you compare it with everything else in your life, especially you the career woman, all the countries you've visited in the past few years, wasn't that a bold move? didn't that involve some kind of risk? But you took that risk right? If you will apply the same will power and determination to your career, why not do the same with your love life? Do you want to be seen as having it all together in your career but your love life is non-existent? All because of what? you are afraid. You weren't afraid to go to school and get all the degrees out there, you weren't afraid to travel the world, venture out to places where you don't know anybody. But to ask a man a simple question as in "Will you marry me"? you chicken out. I don't get it, please enlighten me.

You yourself said the worst he can say is no. It's not like you're going to get struck by lightning or the world will all of a sudden come to an end, so why are you so scared? I know why REJECTION! right? Kai, we women can be such chickens.....but I guess that is redundant. Guys that have been getting rejected from day one, did they fall off the surface of the earth? no they pick themselves up and move on to the next girl. But women will dwell on the rejection so teeeee. It's a pity...really.

One thing to note though is that, Man or woman, if you're going to ask a person to marry you, you should be 70% sure what the answer is going to be, if not don't bother. When you meet someone and as you get to know them over the years, this is the kind of thing you talk about. This is what happened when I was growing up in Nigeria, there really was no formal marriage proposal like they have here. Boyfriends and girlfriends have the marriage discussion from time to time. That is how they each know where they stand with each other. If you ask someone to marry you and they say no, it shouldn't come as a suprise.

Spinnelli Spinnelli chill out!

I'm not chicken!

I dont think i'm chicken because i dont want to ask a guy to marry me. i still think traditionally thats a man's role and should be left as such. But that is not say (if you read my email thoroughly) that i think theres anything wrong if a woman should end up doing the asking. its all well and good! Every case is different. What works for you might just not work for someoneelse. i beleive each case must be viewed as different.

i come from a backgraound as well were marriage is discussed throughout the relationship (i'm nigerian, who lived and spent some of her dating years in Nigeria) but i would want to be asked by guy instead of the other way.

you maybe right, maybe i'm scared i will be rejected ( who likes rejection?..no big deal), but then again i have never just thought of it as something i would do.
A man should play a certain role in a relationship and i belive its best left as such. i mean things are complicated enough.

Men get rejected yes, but they are built for that sort of thing, trust me its all part of the game for them (SHOUT OUT TO THE GUYS). it comes with the territory!

Just chillin'
B
P.S. WHY AREN'T THE GUYS COMMENTING ON THIS!!!! GUYS, GUYS, LETS HEAR YOUR VOICE!!!

Hey Blackqueen, I am right here. You know a sister had a meeting to attend. Anyway, I am feeling your words girl. It is true what you say. I guess I don't have too much to say since I think I am the only one married here. I am an outsider peeping in!!

Berta, the guys are probably too busy trying to figure out what to say...just kidding..we love yall and we need yall too!!

Please be sincere and marry my beautiful sisters on this forum. Treat them with respect!

whew! my last post on this subject, I promise:-). Berta, omo, don't worry, I'm chilling like fish on ice. I know we are all set in our ways and no amount of posts is going to change anyone's mind. That is all good. Diversity IS the spice of life, after all. I am not attacking anybody for their point of view, I'm merely voicing mine and I enjoy reading what others have to say too even if it differs, it's still insightful.

Blackqueen, thanks for bringing up your point but why is that seen as CONTROL though? The fact that I love a man with all my heart and I can't wait to spend the rest of my life with him, bear his children, continue to love and support him. why is that misconstrued as my wanting to control him or emasculate him? I am not his child, I'm his girlfriend/wife, I am sharing his life and he is sharing mine. I merely want to have a say in matters concerning my life and my happiness. dat one na crime? It's a freaking question for crying out loud, if he says yes, are you not going to reach the same destination you wanted to get to, i.e., get married and live happily ever after? and if he says no, won't you rather know now than 10 years later, when you become his common law wife? ....but then again, the word "wife" is in that title. Marriage and relationships are about compromises, give and take. It only works if BOTH people are happy.

This is not women's lib propaganda. Like I said before I'm no Feminazi. I know my place as a woman and my boyfriend/husband knows his place as a man. We consider our relationship like a road trip. If we're driving 8 hours to Michigan. He can drive 7, I can drive 1. He can drive 4, I can drive 4, depending on our strengths. But I'm not going to leave the burden on his shoulders while I sit in the back and eat chips. He's not a chauffeur, he's my partner. HIS sperm and MY egss make babies. We're going to hold hands and walk through life together. Give each other enough room to walk so we're not bumping into each other. Like that song says, he'll be the wing beneath my wings and vice versa. When he gets tired and he needs to rest, our world doesn't come to an end because of it. I take over for a while until he can get back up again.


Men can lead ALL they want, like I said, I know my place. I know the time to take the wheel and I know when to just relax. I think women that are actual control freaks are the ones that ruin it for the rest of us. Blackqueen abeg, no flame me o, no disrespect, but this quote seems a bit confusing for me.

by LETTING HIM FEEL AS THOUGH HE IS IN CONTROL, he feels respected.


Isn't "letting him feel" indirectly controlling him? or am I not understanding it correctly?. It's reads like "gba je n simi" (for my yoruba speaking folks out there). Loving someone is not controlling them. If God meant for men to be leaders, then what did he mean for women to be, followers or assistant leaders? If you say followers, then why do women even bother to come out of the house at all, why do we go to school, get an education and get jobs? Why don't we be the baby making machines that we are, sit at home and tend to the little ones. Wait for our husband's allowances every month. If you say assitant leaders, then you are essentially agreeing with my point...it's all about delegation.

No one is saying you take out a billboard in timesquare, asking a man out or asking him to marry you....actually if you want to do that, then more power to you. But if you dedicate time and effort into nurturing a relationship and when the time comes to move it to the next level, you say "I'd rather quit than ask him to marry me". Boy oh Boy, would you live a life full of regrets.

Men are human too, they like to feel wanted. They like to feel attractive. They like to be loved. And believe it or not, it's more than you just opening your legs and letting him climb on top of you. Give men some credit ladies, they are not all fascist control freaks that need to know and emphasize the fact that they are in charge ALL THE TIME. Men, are you really that insecure with yourselves? Do you really feel the need to make all the decisions all the time for fear that if you let your guard down for a tiny second, your woman will overthrow you? And do you feel the woman you're with is so incompetent and unreliable that you can't leave her to do anything on her own, less she screw it all up?

Ladies, men don't need you to be submissive to feel respected. They are humans too, they make mistakes and they have feelings...Gasp!!! I know! and they too need directions sometimes. If you are driving with your man and you KNOW there is a huge pothole on I-95 that will damage his car beyond repairs, will you try to convince him not to take I-95 or will you just be the "respective and submissive" woman that God meant for you to be and keep your mouth shut? Let him damage his car right? as long as he feels he is in control and you are not trying to tell him what to do, that is all that matters.

Eh hen, Berta, let's call it what it is, fear of rejection. That's more like it.

Anyway sha, that's it for me. I pray we all find good husbands and we all end up happy. and for those that are already married. May your marrriage last forever and ever.

Mo ri yin na

when a woman starts asking you "where is this relationship going to?" you know she is ready to move to the next level and this is one step from her asking you to marry her.
as somebody said earlier, we really don't have that formal "kneel on one leg" marriage proposal, it comes up in the course of courtship, by alluding to the number of kids,the kind of house,jobs, kind of wedding,etc. traditionally we may think awoman desperate to be the one ask, but times are changing......

I don't know that i can say to a man "Marry me", that's just too much of a mouthful for me, if u know what I mean.
I think I can help him see that he needs me, very much in his life,
i'm good for his health,wealth and general well being.
Ofcourse add a little bit of madam's property (he being d property) and naturally next thing u know he's thinking about tying the knot, when can we go home and see ur pple lines!!
I know this is a formula that works bcos right now as I type this,I tried it out on a guy whom I wasnt' interested in marrying just dating and the poor fella is still calling my sister everyday in nigeria, to know when he can meet my folks.
THe other one in america calls round d clock.
What is my point??
You dont' have to say outright, "will u marry me?" the same way men have a way of doing things, we women have a way of doing our own things too.
It's all about subtlety, and if u ask the old grannies and aunties, they'll give u the formula, bcos after all said n done, men are like BABIES, you've got to set their schedules for them, feed them, be there for them, bath them, care for them, etc.
The key that unlocks the door is getting into a relationship with them, and if u can do that believe me getting him to marry u is easier than u think, without saying the words.
Anyway good luck and God's blessings to Bertha, on ur family friend, things'll work out the way it was meant to be, dont' worry
Mrs K, keep on keeping on with ur other half
Spinelli,if asking works for u, then hey why not?
Omorese, I agree with ya when a woman starts talking about where d relationship is headed, she's hinting.

I have to go see about my men, now,
talk to y'all later...

Good to hear from you SISIEKO. i thot we had lost you there for a minute, have you been busy? are you really in Darkar? is your french very good? i'm tyring to learn french, cos i think it would do so much for my career. its such a sexy language. to diagress a bit, i had this black french toaster in grad school, he was so fine from Guadalupe (i hope i spelt it right). He was on my case for six months, unfortunately we didn't take far at all (mainly cos of my hang-ups)
Back to the thread topic i must say you said it very well. Thanks! I hope things work for the best with this my guy. But i'll keeping on.

Spinnelli, like i said previously and sisieko echoed whatever does for you, works!

Take care people!
B

Hi Bertha
Yes I'm really in Dakar (not Darkar, darling)
And I do speak french, I'd have to, to work in the sector I do.
And yes it's Guadaloupe
French men are romantic, but they're also very into dutchy things.
You know, you guys go out u split bills
me i be village girl from nija
in my country u take me out, u pay for dinner.
But otherwise they (the french) have great cuisine
to go with their romance
It's a whole new experience here,
come visit dakar someday
maybe Mr Right is here.
Infact i'm extending an IV to everyone,
for the guys, if u like ur women lekpacious
dakar is the place to be
and for u women,
if u like going dutch with men (I HATE IT)
then come visit.
Sisi eko will host ya

Spinelli,

I say let's hear from the men on the board and how they feel about a woman asking them to marry them and how respect is very important, more than important to a man.


The reason I say that is because its true. Men always want to feel as though they have control in the relationship.
NOT the CONTROL in the way some may be thinking..as if we are a slave or submissive one (some do want this, but they are most likely the INSECURE TYPE OF MAN ). One example of this is when we CRY women, nothing makes a man feel more out of control than when we burst into tears...Now let's ask them about this...
CAN I HEAR FROM THE MEN...??

They need to feel like "THE MAN" in the relationship which means they need to feel like a woman is not trying to "control" them totally.

Now lets be honest women, we can be some control freaks at times...it's our nature because of Eve.

Like I said, Lets ask some men here who are HONEST enough to tell how they see it. :D

Believe me honey, I am all about a woman doing her thang..but there are some thangs ( yes, thangs not things) :D are not our place to do whether we like it or not. I use to think it was OK for a woman to ask a man out too..until I got a little older and wiser and had a little more experience.

When you sit down and consider the one thing each party wants more than anything in a relationship, they both come down to two words...the woman wants "love" the man wants "respect"...
NOT TO SAY WE DON'T WANT RESPECT AND HE DOES NOT WANT LOVE...BUT BELIEVE ME ON THIS ONE...( this is another book)..
BUT WHAT DO WE SAY LADIES??? IF HE IS NOT DOING WHAT WE THINK HE SHOULD BE, OR ACTING RIGHT...WHAT DO WE DO??
WE HIT HIM WHERE IT HURTS, HIS MANHOOD...WE START DISRESPECTING HIM..( in different ways )...


"Men are leaders, we are followers..."

We were made to be a helper to the man, and because of that they are to lead. Yes we help them in leading, giving advice, being a support system, working together...BUT, the truth is there are some thangs not meant for a woman to do that is the way God intended it.

I am just throwing some points here and there but this subject is MUCH deeper than we are even taking it.

WHERE SOLA AT?? WHERE THE MEN AT?? IF I AM WRONG MEN, STRAIGHTEN ME...:D

I'm really going to have a problem with Dakar french romantic men, because i hate paying for my dinner! i dont do dutch! not in my books at all.

At least our good ol' niger men always pay, its an insult for you to pay for them (you know in a date suituation)

layta

You're right about them paying...my husband and I will go out to dinner with my friends and when the bill comes, he tells them to put their wallets away. I'm looking at him like, please, they can pay!!!

Mrs K..
Sounds like your husband is a gentleman.
It's only right for the man to pay. Good men usually know that .

Is it just me or does anyone ever feel they are mooching if he ALWAYS pays and you can't even leave the tip?

No, I think it's his job to pay. That is one of the many things he should do..being that he is the leader and all....:D
I think a man should feel less of a man if he expects her to pull out of her pocket to pay for a meal. Nothing is wrong with a woman paying for the meal if you are married..but if you are dating, I say its his job..

Nope, your not a mooch..you should demand to be treated like a lady and this is one of the many ways he shows his ability to "provide" for you. Which is also the man job...

Ladies, if I were you, I wouldnt' marry a man who couldn't provide for me finacially, not to say you marry a man for his wallet...but I do say..if you are unable to work, he needs to be able to bring home a steady income to take care of home.
Its that simple. Its another one of his jobs as a leader. To be a PROVIDER. The truth is, a woman was not meant to work and bring home the bacon...she can, but God intended Mr.Adam to do that. SO let him pay for meals, why not??

Spinelli I dont' feel like I'm "mooching" when I don't tip.
Since u took me out to dinner u no include tip for ur budget?
Maybe a bit harsh but well sometimes u're in the mood other times not, it's not an obligation, it's not an unspoken rule, 'cause he's paying then u pay the tip.
Mrs K's husband is not only a gentleman but he's a NIGERIAN, my senegalese friends, think nija men are so generous, and if there's one thing I'll admit (albeit grudgingly) it's that nija men have style, they're funky pple to be with.
So omo boys, let ur heads grow big on that one.
I'm surprised all the guys have been quiet all this time, maybe they took a boys' oops sorry mens' day out,
or their on holiday
abi SOla don resign from NIA??????
A bientot tout le monde~!!!!!!!!!

Mrs K. your husband is a true gentleman! its abit much if he keeps paying all the time though.

We recently went for a birthday lunch and this my "family friend" paid for everyone. i was abit angst about it cos i felt the guy that was celebrating wasn't worth it! But thats me and my woman whahla (hang-ups)!

damn! . I guess we are all different but for some reason I don't equate being treated as a lady with having a man pay my way all the time. Afterall we all have jobs and earn roughly the same salary, not to talk of having the same amount of bills to pay. Dating is expensive especially for some of us that like to eat good and have fun, I'd feel better helping to offset the cost of a $200 date than to just automatically expect him to lay 4 Benjamins on the table like it's nothing, EVERY TIME we go out to eat. That is probably the poor man's car payment for the month.


Maybe I've just lived in this part of the world too long but it is considered polite for a woman to chip in at times. You are not obligated to and you don't have to but the same way the guy is paying your way because he wants to show you how much he likes you is the same way you offer to pick up the tab sometimes because you want to show him how much you like him. I've been taught that there are other ways to show affection for a man besides cooking him a meal and having sex with him. Afterall, dating is a two-way street. You are courting each other right? no?

Guys where are you?

Yeah SISIEKO, many of my american girlfriends think Nigerian men are very generous and know how to care for their women!

Yeah, you are courting each other..but he still needs to pay.
Yeah, its a two way street...but he still should pay...

This is just my belief.. If we are married then I feel its fine or me to pay because the money is "ours" anyway...but when dating, he needs to pay regardless of how much money I make.

But, go for what'cha know baby....:D

WOW! blackqueen

Spinelli,

I dont' see it as a MAN paying my way, we as women have lost the feel of what it is to be treated like a woman..with all the LIB movement and shit..we want to show MEN that we can DO what they can DO....and really, its some shit not meant for us to do that they do...thats the bottom line. And I dont' care to wear a "S" on my chest, I have nothing to prove to any man or anybody for that matter. I am not SUPERWOMAN, NOR is he SUPERMAN..but it is his job to do his best to pull the superman roll off...not mine. It's my job to be his Super-help, not superwoman.....Now lets just keep it real......

Love the one ya'wit..:D

Once again my dear, WOW!

Pardon me but what is so difficult in you taking out money from your wallet and paying for a meal? Why does everything have to be drama and "what his role is and what your role is". Ile aye o le to ba yi (life is not this complicated). With all the financial obligations the guy already has, is it too much for a woman to be like, "baby, you do so much for me, FOR ONCE, let me get this one, relieve you of your load a little bit"?. If God meant for you to be his supporter, then why don't you do just that and support him? Or did God specify that when it comes to paying for a meal, you shouldn't support him in that? O ga o. "Super- help", ok, picking up the tab once in a while is not considered "helping"?. Abi which one be superwoman in using the money that you earned and clearly have, to pay for a meal today so that his phone bill this month is not late?. So the day he doesn't have enough money and you do, there will be no dating that day because God forbid you take money out of your own wallet to buy him food, lightning will just strike huh?

You may be misunderstanding me a bit, I'm not advocating that the woman take over the role of provider or whatever. I'm not saying you should make your husband stay home and do the dishes while you go out in your suit and high heels to kick some ass in some corporate meeting. I'm not saying you should fight your boyfriend/date/husband to the finish so he can let you pay for the date. BUT EVERY ONCE IN A WHILE, treat your man to dinner too, be it a home cooked meal or a 4-course dinner at the 4 seasons. Let him know that his generosity is not being taken for granted and you appreciate the fact that he can go out and slave away all day every day just so you can have those pretty shoes you've been eyeing for so long.

My dear NIGERIAN (born and bred) boyfriend, bless his heart is in his mid-twenties with $40,000 a year job. Brother just graduated college and has school loans up to his nose. Maintaning his own apartment, car note, phone bill, insurance, cable bill, food and numerous other expenses. He has to send money home monthly so his family in Nigeria can eat and Lord knows there is always some emergency or the other..."someone is sick, we need money like yesterday". By your reasoning blackqueen, all these factors should not be considered. I should just demand that because he is a MAN and he is a LEADER and a PROVIDER, EVERY TIME we go out to eat or have a date, he has to shell out precious dollars that should be used to take care of some of these responsibilities because of my desperate need " to be treated like a lady"?. The fact that I have a job and I earn a paycheck shouldn't matter, I should keep my own money to myself, and spend his money on the food and expenses that WE BOTH share. And this is a man that I claim to love and his happiness and stress-free life is one of my top priorities?

If you have a boyfriend and God forbids, he loses his job by no deliberate act of his own. His savings become depleted and he can't provide you with the finer things in life anymore. Is that enough grounds for dumping him....since he can't fufil his obligation as a provider?

I don't think God meant for us to take his words literally the way you claim we should. I think he wants us to apply common sense to what he says and apply his words wisely depending on our individual situation. When he calls the man the provider, is there a section where he mandates that women shouldn't do what they can, when they can to help him provide?


Anyway my dear girl, I no de yan you at all at all. Please don't take offense to anything I've said, it's nothing personal. Like you said, to each his own for real. I just don't understand your reasoning and I would be grateful:D if you can help me understand it.

I think we should start another thread for this topic, the men are probably not responding because they think we are still on the topic of marriage. Clearly things have shifted and I WOULD LOVE to hear from men on this issue. Can we start a new post?

O ya people, I don do effico and moved the thread. Feel free to chime in , hopefully the guys too can give us some insights.

No, I'm not taking anything personal..say what u feel.

I never said we are not to cook for him, etc...
I said we are to be his HELPMATE...which means we are to help out...but it is a different story when your dating.

But because noone wants to do things GODs way, we are left to make up stuff as we go along, ..and that is why we see the many divorces we see..especially here in the US..because noone wants to do things the way God said they are to go.

We dont' break God's laws, his laws will break us...
when we do break his laws..we end up broke in the end.

Of course if he looses his job, you help out..you are the "help mate".

But you should make sure he is able to provide in the beginning, this is his role..its that simple.

I can only look at this issue from a biblical point of view..and maybe I am not making myself clear..because I am really just throwing some points out here and there.

This marriage thing must be handled the way God intended or it will not work...thats why we have all this divorce in this place now anyway.

Blackqueen, I've started a new post on this pardon me. I'll "take control" and move your reply to that one :D . if you don't mind.

Do what u feel..:D "take control"..............................

where's the new thread, whats the topic?

what does it take to become and ogbonge member? Any priviledges?
i noticed my status don change!

it's called "women paying for dates" or something like that. I just basically copied what everyone said on here.. Check in the "Life in the Diaspora" section

Originally posted by Berta
what does it take to become and ogbonge member? Any priviledges?
i noticed my status don change! 20 posts, Berta. You have become a fellow! Ha ha!:D

I read almost all 15 pages of post, as unbelievable as it is, and I've grown sort of attached to the characters here. It's unfortunate that the Naija scene here is letting us all down, b'cos I can see attributes in most of us that would make someone else happy.

Having said that, I am totally terrified for Bachelor. My family is the poster family for men who go abroad, and return to Naija to find brides. Let me explain...My dad has 5 bros, and is the eldest. His brothers live either in the UK or in the US. They are all married and divorced...ALL. I swear to God, I am NOT lying.

His youngest brother has been married four times, another brother three times, and another twice, barely holding his most recent marriage together. As for my uncle in the US, his was the worst of the lot. He kept on returning home to find a bride for 22 years, serially dating all sorts of women (doctors to lawyers to prison wardens). He finally brought one to the US three years ago, at the age of 48, and she turned out to be the devil in disguise.

And these are highly educated, perfectly mannered, bright gentlemen we are talking about. It turns out that almost all the girls they married were using 'means' on them. A disgraceful situation indeed. So you can understand why I am scared for Bachelor. I pray we never hear terrible stories on this forum.

I am approaching the age where I have to consider marriage, which totally terrifies me. Although I have my parents as a wonderful example, I have to wonder if I wont share a similar fate with my uncles. Plus the experiences I have had with guys here is awful (If he cant look hot in lace and dance better than me to Obesere, I wont have him). I think a lot of Naija guys expect too much. God, I consider myself very beautiful - but I am also very shy - and guys wont give me a chance for it. If I dont smile enough, I'm too stuck up. Maybe they just havent considered that I'm not feeling the talk about how they used to give their ex-girlfriend $400 a week to go shopping with. Who cares? For the guys out there who are complaining about the situation, what would they have to say to that?

Sorry the post is so long, but I'm sure y'all will understand that I have a long 'history' with the post, having read most of it. Happy searching to us all.

Trutalk welcome on board...
I have read ur post, its very strange. maybe you should go for deliverance before getting married, no offence, but if divorce is so prevalant in your family, perphaps its something spiritual...
no vex o!

Welcome on board Trutalk. You pounced on the most popular and longest thread on this board, although our threads tend to be long. It just will not go away as more people join and add a new perspective to it. Well, I'm sure some of our members will soon have something to say right back to you.

As to getting near that marrying age, I would say just be yourself. Shy or not, make sure you market the product. I don't mean lay it out on the shelf so obviously, but you got to make it look good enough to pounce on, and take it where the potentila buyers congregate. Its all about selling... And who's buying!

Enjoy! :D

Originally posted by Berta
...if divorce is so prevalant in your family, perphaps its something spiritual... Come on Berta, you certainly don't believe that!

Sola didn't you read what trutalk wrote? I think its good to get God invovled especially as she worried it might happen to her!!

Trutalk, omo, don't be scared, find yourself a good man, get to know him some and take the plunge. Leave the rest to God. I'm not cursing you o, but yeah the marriage could fall apart, but it could also last forever. You could cut your yourself while dicing tomatoes for dinner, or the dinner preparation could go smoothly. You could trip and fall on the side walk while going to work, or you could arrive at work safe and sound. My point is things can go wrong or they can go right. That is life, nobody knows what will happen in the next minute much less what will happen in a few years. We all just speculate and hope for the best. Worrying about it on the other hand is not good for you because anxiety is interest paid on tommorow's problems.

Even in your uncle's cases, I don't know if one can automatically conclude that their marriages fell apart because they went to Nigeria to pick wives. They could just have jerk radar and picked the wrong women. Their marriages may have ended up the same even if they had picked women abroad.

There are good Nigerian men out there, sometimes you gotta kiss a lot of frogs to find your prince so keep on treading. Think of it this way, with each Mr. Wrong you meet, you are one step closer to meeting Mr. Right. I feel you on the dancing thing though, don't you just love a man that can give you a run for your money on the dance floor? oooh that is sooooo sexy. The ones that just stand there like morons and expect you to bump and grind against them....please!. I paid $10 to get in the club, you better believe I'm going to dance all night, get some exercise and get my money's worth.

TruTalk, welcome to the NIA. You have a very interesting perspective but as some folks say here....Don't be scared!!! Even though your family has a history of this divorcing pattern, that doesn't mean the same thing will happen to you. I do believe you've got to get God involved cause if he isn't, that's when the trouble starts. Believe, I know since I am married and sometimes when you forget God, he reminds you of who he is by punishing you in ways you can barely understand. Berta is right. There is something called the generation curse. It's in the Bible but I can't remember where but you, Trutalk, can break the cycle of this behavior. I think the thing that probably scares you the most is the fact that you'll be getting older and being alone. It's scary but as a Christian friend of mine told me, this is the time you need to be praying. This is when your blessings will flow.

As far as your uncles, perhaps they were having problems and they didn't want to deal with it. Everytime me and my husband are having problems, I always remind him and myself of what our marriage vows are. The statement "For better or worse" is probably the strongest words I know besides I love you. You make a commitment to God when you marry and Lord knows I don't want to be out of his will by messing things up!

All,

Tru Talk is making a mistake by generalizing about picking brides from home, or picking grooms for that matter. Every generalization is a lie; what matters is probability. With that I confidently state that marriages between Nigerians in the diaspora ( but born or raised in Nigeria) have a lesser probability of ending in divorce than the generality of marriages in the USA.

Then there she goes with the "He must look good in lace" and dance like an Okoso. Good specifications, but u must evaluate yourself and be sure u can catch such a man and win the competition against the other babes out there who r looking for just such a generally very desirable man. I myself found I couldn't compete for models here so I took the chase to Africa where I found a woman who will put any in America to shame: be it in looks, intelligence or humility.

And that is the crux of the problem. Everyone wants a model. The problem 4 women is that the male model is likely to take advantage of his eligibility and screw around as much as possible. Women models on the other hand are less likely to do so, especially if a man commits to her and brings a great deal of economic security. One funny thing I realized the other day is that if u go to any large institution (such as a university or hospital) the women in that institution who choose to date a man working in that same institution are very likely to date the same few men. In other words, the few handsome, flashy, powerful men might be end up screwing most of the women who make themselves available, while the "yeye" men get nothing. Afterall, when women r complaining about men, who r they complaining about........the ugly short brothers or the R. Kelly look alikes?

In short, take ur goods to where they r valued. The Lord Jesus said not to throw your jewels b4 swine, b/c they know not the value. B4 u go for the lace wearing, dancing Okoso, make sure u r of value to him. In short, don't overlook the men who ain't getting none..........they may value u more.

This is not rocket science!

Bachelor.

I like this point you made:

In short, take ur goods to where they r valued. The Lord Jesus said not to throw your jewels b4 swine, b/c they know not the value. B4 u go for the lace wearing, dancing Okoso, make sure u r of value to him. In short, don't overlook the men who ain't getting none..........they may value u more.

Tru Talk,

Keep your options open and be prayerful.

I really admire you bachelor and I can see your appeal, really. You know what you want, you stand by your opinions and you don't apologize for it, that is a very admirable quality for a person to have. We all don't have to agree with your choice to go home and pick a wife, but it is YOUR choice and I commend you for standing by it.

So what you're saying is that we should stick to the guys that want us as opposed to the ones we want? Sort of like a "love the one you're with" situation?. mmmmm interesting. You have a valid point there. I think people put more emphasis on this "love, spark, attraction, butterflies, etc" than they put on compatibility. I won't lie, I'm guilty of that too. Is it better in the long run to stay with the guy you're comfortable and secure with as opposed to the one who makes you weak in the knees? Can the same guy have both qualities? over time? Should "attraction", physical and otherwise be discounted when it comes to choosing a mate?
You are correct, there are a LOT of men who don't look like Denzel, who aren't tall and sexy like Will Smith and who can't dance to save their lives, but that doesn't mean they won't make good boyfriends/husbands. How many potentially good mates have we all passed over because they are not tall enough or sexy enough? Guys, how many perfectly nice women have you looked past because they are not exactly physically attractive? Are our standards too high?


I know many couples who have marriages of convenience and they seem to be making it work. Married couples who live like roommates . Women have told me to remove my rose colored glassess and face reality, i.e., Is he good to you? does he take care of your children? as opposed to does his kiss make you dizzy? does he have six-pack abs?. There are a lot of people, both men and women who are in loveless, boring marriages but choose to remain in it because they don't want to mess with the status quo. Who needs love anyway? Your husband/wife is not exactly an axe murderer or an abusive person, your kids are healthy and seem to be happy, you have a home to call your own, cars, health insurance, etc. So what is the big deal if you guys haven't had sex in years? Is that enough to disrupt you and your children's life in divorce court?


I know I've gone off on another tangent there, but your words got me thinking.

Preach Spinnelli, you should be charging for this knowledge!!

Originally posted by spinnelli
I really admire you bachelor and I can see your appeal, really. You know what you want, you stand by your opinions and you don't apologize for it, that is a very admirable quality for a person to have. We all don't have to agree with your choice to go home and pick a wife, but it is YOUR choice and I commend you for standing by it.

So what you're saying is that we should stick to the guys that want us as opposed to the ones we want? Sort of like a "love the one you're with" situation?. mmmmm interesting. You have a valid point there. I think people put more emphasis on this "love, spark, attraction, butterflies, etc" than they put on compatibility. I won't lie, I'm guilty of that too. Is it better in the long run to stay with the guy you're comfortable and secure with as opposed to the one who makes you weak in the knees? Can the same guy have both qualities? over time? Should "attraction", physical and otherwise be discounted when it comes to choosing a mate?
You are correct, there are a LOT of men who don't look like Denzel, who aren't tall and sexy like Will Smith and who can't dance to save their lives, but that doesn't mean they won't make good boyfriends/husbands. How many potentially good mates have we all passed over because they are not tall enough or sexy enough? Guys, how many perfectly nice women have you looked past because they are not exactly physically attractive? Are our standards too high?


I know many couples who have marriages of convenience and they seem to be making it work. Married couples who live like roommates . Women have told me to remove my rose colored glassess and face reality, i.e., Is he good to you? does he take care of your children? as opposed to does his kiss make you dizzy? does he have six-pack abs?. There are a lot of people, both men and women who are in loveless, boring marriages but choose to remain in it because they don't want to mess with the status quo. Who needs love anyway? Your husband/wife is not exactly an axe murderer or an abusive person, your kids are healthy and seem to be happy, you have a home to call your own, cars, health insurance, etc. So what is the big deal if you guys haven't had sex in years? Is that enough to disrupt you and your children's life in divorce court?


I know I've gone off on another tangent there, but your words got me thinking.

Impressive!

Spinnelli,

Thanks 4 ur kind words. As u can probably tell from my post I'm very fed up with hypocrisy. Its amazing how ppl can go on lying to themselves day in day out and still be able to sleep at night. My frankness probably springs from a deep disappointment at my lack of success in the mating game here in the USA, but there is one thing that my suffering has given me: the ability to tell myself the truth. At a time I got so deep into researching the the human psyche that my family thought I was crazy! I asked my parents all kinds of things............like

"Mum, r u circumcised? Do u think its a good thing?"

Or some girls after they rejected me, I would call them up and say something like

"Let's be real, what is it that u don't like about me?"

Believe it or not, there was one case where I did get this Black American girl in bed, we were naked and about to do the nasty then I put my clothes back on and insisted she tell me what it was that got her to go all the way with me!!! (And u thought u had met all the psychos out there :guffaw).

Or I would meet some rich and successful man and pester him for his outlook on life and how he made it.

Then after I read some of the history of the Catholic Church and some other religions, I threw belief in God where it belongs: in my mental wastebasket.

I learned a lot and I think I know most of what drives us all. At its most basic, we are not much more complicated than animals; we are even more dangerous b/c we have some intelligence to go with our intincts. It was after I realized what was really going on that I really changed. From the Queen of England to the lowest credit card fraudster, we're all the same.

I swear, don't get me started. The most maddening thing about it all is that most adults know all these things, they see it and live by it......but won't admit it! :glare

I've even gotten tired of preaching this stuff. :o To each their own.

Bachelor

Wow, amazing ..mental wastebasket? I'd like to hear more why you threw God away.....

Yeah Batchelor, I'm with Mrs K on this one, tell us exactly why you threw God in ur mental waste basket. it'd be interesting to know!
B.

Originally posted by Berta
Yeah Batchelor, I'm with Mrs K on this one, tell us exactly why you threw God in ur mental waste basket. it'd be interesting to know!
B. This is going in a different direction. I opened a new thread called WHAT HAS GOD DONE FOR YOU LATELY. Perhaps it is time for us to also discuss our beliefs?

http://www.nigeriansinamerica.com/vbulletin//showthread.php?threadid=350

Folks,

He didn't say he threw God away.
No one can do that.
He said he threw his belief in God in his mental waste basket and he already explained why.

what's the difference n/5n?

Mrs Kenna,

It may look like I'm splitting hairs or engaging in semantics.
The difference is quite clear.
Bachelor didn't say he threw God away.
He said: "Then after I read some of the history of the Catholic Church and some other religions, I threw belief in God where it belongs: in my mental wastebasket."
He's talking for his reason for disbelief in God.
And he has clearly stated the reason why.

We must refrain from paraphrasing and rephrasing other people's statements, lest they be taken out of context and misunderstood.:)

Maybe I read it differently..

I don't know where these eligible young Nigerian men are but you guys need to head to Texas. There is an extremely large population of young single Nigerian males and females in Texas (Dallas, Houston, Austin).
We are always asking where the well educated, nice looking, well-mannered Nigerian men are and we're always told that they are up North. I guess the American stereotype is true ..."the attractive, educated women are on the West Coast and South, while the attractive educated men are on the east coast".
I am a 21 year old double major Nursing and Biology student to whom Nigerians know I'm Nigerian while Americans think I'm an attractive, educated female from Up north or Europe.
Just to let you men know there are women here in America ...don't keep going home to find wives!!

YOu go girl! Stella.
I like this page. We all know the story of how 9ja gals use men to get over here, while they leave 30s ladies like us here.
This society is ultra multicultural.
How do you meet an eligible man/woman un less you frequent clubs here, have a huge family, have lots of friends, or attend town meetings?

How? I leave home at 8am, get back at 8pm. ONE DAY IS GONE!!! Weekends, I use to tidy up around me and get more studies done! And you wonder that I am 31 years old?

I cannot account for the last 3 years, cos I have been using it to settle down here in USA.

You know what it takes to get into this culture?

By the way, I was dumoed by my 9ja ex fiance who used me to get over here. I met thsi Urhobo guy who lied he was married for 3 months! Claimed his so was his sister's and later said he was not married, but his baby mama etc etc ALL LIES!! Who would stand that!

SO, I am dating a 34 year old white guy. Yeah! Itrs kinda of choking as he is VERY VERY, I MEAN VERY AFFECTIONATE!! And respects me with all my accent, smelly ogbono soup and all. But I feel much loved and secure now! WOuld I marry him?
;) My mum is still halaring, but I am enticing her that she will have a blonde grandchild!!!:D

I like hispanic (preferrably educated, attractive Cubans from Miami...have tons of guy friends who went to Belen Jesuit HS there), white men, and the good looking NON ghetto black men that are pretty hard to find.
Some of these Nigerian men are just stupid. They don't understand that we're in a country where women are treated differently BETTER to say the least. We're street smart, book smart, feminine, yet strong and independent.
If these Nigerian men don't GROW UP and RECOGNIZE their surroundings then Nigerian women are going to keep finding better partners of a different ethnicity or race!!
I know my parents don't mind having mulatto or blatino granchildren as long as I stay married, he is a great educated man, and we're happy. Then their happy!

Hi Astella and Ijeoma! Welcome to the NIA!

Sisi Ijeoma & Astella,

I'm largin' it in good o'l blighty and have no intention of going to Naija to look for a bride. I am loving the variety of God's most beautiful creations ( women :D ) that can be found right here in London. Bengali, Indian, Chinese, Congolese, South Africans of all races, Iraqis, Israelis, Carribeans, East Europeans. I am feelin' em all. Am spoilt for choice and need to make up my mind on where/who to go for, though I have an abiding fondness for the Chinese ladies. So yall go for your prince wherever he comes from on the planet. Heck, even if he comes from planet Mars if he makes ya happy, roll wid it.

ciao

Astella,

I have many friends in TX. One of them is a 30yr old pharmacist. Another is a business man, we attended college together; he ships cars to Nigeria, among other things.

The shipper is big, broad shouldered and handsome. The pharmacist is just average looking, not ugly, just someone who most ppl wouldn't give a second look.

When we were in college, this business guy had so many girlfriends its not funny. Even today when I call his house or visit TX or he visits me, there is always a different woman in his life, Carribbean, Naija, White, Black American, name it, he's got them.

My pharmacist friend can't find a woman to save his life.......and get this.........he wants to get married! I attended a party in Houston with him last yr and he introduced me to this girl he's been courting for months now with no result. She's a nurse by the way.

And just to put in my 2 cents, knowing these 2 guys as I do, if it came to a choice 4 my own sister, I would advise her to go 4 the pharmacist, not the business guy. I know, and most women know, which one will make a better and more stable, husband.

So what the fuck is the deal about TX?

Ppl should stop decieving themselves. Our choice of mates are influenced by 2 things;

1. Looks, beauty, handsomeness 2. Money

That my pharmacist friend if he went to Nigeria today would find hundreds of willing women. Hmmmmmmmmmm. I wonder why?

Speaking from my own experience, I had many choices of women in the USA who weren't too good looking, but b/c I had the means, I had higher standards of what would satisfy me, so I took advantage of my "marketability" in Nigeria.

When I was still stupidly wasting my time courting Naija women in the USA, I tried my luck in just about every city with a major Naija populations. I went to 3 "Nigerian Reunions", one in Houston, by the way. The only beautiful, eligible Naija woman to take me seriously was at the Nigerian Reunion in Miami. We actually became good friends, I was thinking of taking it to another level........till she told me she had a baby out of wedlock.

Would she have been so polite and nice 2 me if she didn't have a baby?

I can't believe u don't know this. Do u prefer ugly men over handsome ones?

There is nothing to do with location in this. If what u have is in demand, u will pimping all day. If what u got is not hard to get, no one will pay ur ass any mind.

But then there is always luck........... falling in love is a mysterious thing. :guffaw . Yeah, right. Stop the madness, please.

Ijeoma,

More luck 2 u! I admire ur type. U only have one life to live. U have the right 2 be with whoever u want, and so does everybody else. ;)

Bachelor.

Hmmmmm!